How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
Post Reply
User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5766
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 56
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:45)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:108, p:1599)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 126
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by bekateen »

Hi All,

I'm reading an old post and Jools says that Pseudolithoxus tigris is a delicate fish needing high temps and high DO:
Jools wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:07 pm
...these are delicate fish (high temp, high DO, specific feeding regime).
As to temperature, the CLOG lists the range as 73.4-80.6°F. That's not very warm by my experience.

But that aside, how difficult are they to keep? If I struggle with Chaetostoma, will I struggle with these? I wouldn't want to get a group and kill them.

Thanks for your feedback,
Eric
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

User avatar
Shane
Expert
Posts: 4247
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:12 pm
My articles: 69
My images: 163
My catfish: 72
My cats species list: 4 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
Spotted: 86
Location 1: Abuja
Location 2: Nigeria
Contact:

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by Shane »

Eric,
I have also found these difficult in the sense that they will not do well if plopped in a generic set up. Much better for a species tank or one specifically set up for Orinoco loricariids with similar needs. I have never been a fan of "cooking" plecos in abnormally high temps, but freely admit that it has worked well for some.
Sand substrate, caves, stones, high DO, good flow and clean water. Not a fish for those that skip water changes.
-Shane
"My journey is at an end and the tale is told. The reader who has followed so faithfully and so far, they have the right to ask, what do I bring back? It can be summed up in three words. Concentrate upon Uganda."
Winston Churchill, My African Journey

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5766
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 56
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:45)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:108, p:1599)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 126
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by bekateen »

Hi Shane,

Thanks. Your info holds good news and bad news for me.

I haven't purchased the fish yet, but just considering my suitability as a keeper.

At least initially, I'm considering a 29 gal species tank or with some added corys. As the fish grow, I'd probably upside to a 40gal breeder.

Matten filter, extra (oversized) internal powerhead for strong current and added aeration, heated to 78F. I wasn't going to cook them because (a) the CLOG says they don't need it and (b) I might add corys. Regardless of pleco species, I've already got several tanks at 85F. I need a couple more tanks at 78-80 to be more suitable for the corys.

Cobblestones, some wood, and clay caves. Coarse gravel in flow, but sand away from current (for corys if present). Tanks will be at work, so I have easy access to DI water if needed. Was planning an approximate 50-50 mix of DI and tap water.

Right now I'm keeping (successfully) several other Orinoco species (B. beggini, He. guahiborum, Hy. debilittera, L201, P. maccus to name a few). But I've also lost every Chaetostoma I've ever kept, none lasting more than a few months (not cooked, they were at 70-75F max in most recent attempts). My worry is the water changes. I try to do 50%-80% WC every two weeks. But life often gets in the way and some tanks will go 3-5 weeks without a water change. That's why I've chosen a Matten filter, they're more stable than HOBs in my experience.

Will that lead me to failure, in your opinion? As much as I'd like to get these, I've learned my lesson with Chaetostoma, and I won't get more rubberlips until I can give them the right setup. Therefore, I won't take on the P. tigris if I'm setting myself (and the fish) for failure.

Thanks again,
Eric
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

User avatar
Shane
Expert
Posts: 4247
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:12 pm
My articles: 69
My images: 163
My catfish: 72
My cats species list: 4 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 4 (i:4)
Spotted: 86
Location 1: Abuja
Location 2: Nigeria
Contact:

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by Shane »

I avoid Corys and loricariids in the same tank unless mixing the Corys with larger, robust plecos. I find that a school of Corys can easily out compete most medium or smaller plecos for food. If you really, really want to mix in Corys maybe try one of the dwarf spp.
Another factor I think many aquarists miss is that two spp may be from the same river but never found together. That is the case here as Pseudolithoxus is smashed in rock crevices in rapids with super high o2 levels and current while Corys stick to quiet oxbows, small tributary creeks and near the sandy banks out of the central current.
At least you are honest about your ability to preform water changes! These really are not a good candidate for what you can do and may also be why you had trouble with Chaetostoma. All of these rapids dwellers are living in an environment of massive non stop water changes and thus are not able to deal well when these conditions are not met in captivity. When I was breeding Chaetostoma spp the tanks were very lightly stocked with no tankmates, over filtered, and got 70% water changes every week.
Hope this helps.
-Shane
"My journey is at an end and the tale is told. The reader who has followed so faithfully and so far, they have the right to ask, what do I bring back? It can be summed up in three words. Concentrate upon Uganda."
Winston Churchill, My African Journey

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5766
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 56
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:45)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:108, p:1599)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 126
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by bekateen »

Thanks Shane.

As to keeping corys and plecos together, I am aware of the food competition concern, but since the foods I prefer are either solid or near ad libitum, I've never suffered from under-nourished plecos in these tanks; there's always plenty of food for my plecos.

The water changes are the tipping point. I've had Pseudolithoxus on my "to do" list for a while now, but it sounds like my tanks, even with heavy circulation and the Matten, are not well-suited for these fish.

Much appreciated,
Eric
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5766
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 56
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:45)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:108, p:1599)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 126
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by bekateen »

I'm sorry guys. I was weak. The price was so good. I ended up getting a few Pseudolithoxus tigris. I set up a special tank at work where water changes will be easier. The fish will be housed with a group of small butterfly plecos, Dekeyseria sp(l052): Matten filter, extra powerhead and aeration; water will be a 50-50 mix of tap water and distilled water. Initial foods will be Repashy soylent green and bottom scratcher.

I also picked up some more Hypancistrus debilittera to repopulate a small group I had (but lost most of) when a filter failed last Fall.

Wish me luck... pray for me (more correctly, pray that I am a good steward of these tigris).

Cheers, Eric

P.S., Getting the butterflies was the fulfillment of a long-standing search of mine, going back to 2015: Another case of buyer beware in big chain pet stores. Granted, in this case I ended up with L052 instead of my desired Dekeyseria brachyura; but in the meantime I've learned there's enough variation within these two forms that you can get cruddy-looking D. brachyura and nice looking L052. So now I'm happy with either.

New Dekeyseria L052, Pseudolithoxus tigris and Hypancistrus debilittera

"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5766
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 56
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:45)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:108, p:1599)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 126
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by bekateen »

Friday I moved them out of QT and into their new homes - one tank got all L052, the other tank got a mix of tigris and L052 (I split the L052 to keep total number of fish per tank about the same). Both tanks decorated the same - a little sand for corys, cobble stones, wood, and lots of current. Temp 78F; TDS around 100-125ppm. pH 6.8. Bright lights in daytime hours has already got some algae growing on cobblestones and wood. Pothos vines dangle out of the tank top to assist with water quality.

Today the fish are scurrying around the tank nicely. I gave them some Repashy this morning, but I haven't seen them eat yet in the new tanks. (to be fair though, I didn't come into work all weekend, so really, I mean they haven't eaten in front of me this morning, :d )

Cheers, Eric
Attachments
Pseudolithoxus tigris
Pseudolithoxus tigris
Dekeyseria sp. L052
Dekeyseria sp. L052
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

Jobro
Posts: 861
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:34 pm
My cats species list: 12 (i:7, k:8)
My aquaria list: 3 (i:3)
Spotted: 3
Location 1: Germany
Location 2: Allgäu

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by Jobro »

Dekeyseria/Zonancistrus love lots of sand to dig around. If you put a plate of slate on top of the sand, the males will dig their own caves underneath and spawn there when they are mature.

Good luck with the new fish Eric! :-)


Btw, I think your fish are what is usally called L168, not L52. They are stunning. Would love to get my hands on a nice group one day, too. So far, all my "L168" attempts turned out to be L52 when I received them...
follow my Plecos on Instagram: welsgefluester

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5766
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 56
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:45)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:108, p:1599)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 126
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by bekateen »

Jobro wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:14 pm
Btw, I think your fish are what is usally called L168, not L52. They are stunning. Would love to get my hands on a nice group one day, too. So far, all my "L168" attempts turned out to be L52 when I received them...
Hi Johannes,

The Dekeyseria were listed as D. brachyura (L168) when the importer purchased them. But I had the importer ask the supplier in South America where these were from (catch location) so that we could confirm species ID. The supplier never provided us an answer for actual catch location, but did respond with an email saying, "in fact these are L052." So I inferred from this answer that either they knew these aren't D. brachyura or they paid so little for them that they suspect these aren't D. brachyura. I'd prefer to have D. brachyura, but I am happy either way. :-)
Jobro wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:14 pm
Dekeyseria/Zonancistrus love lots of sand to dig around. If you put a plate of slate on top of the sand, the males will dig their own caves underneath and spawn there when they are mature.
Thanks for the tip about the slate over the sand. I'll definitely set that up. There are also lots of crevices under the cobble stones that I know they like already.

Cheers, Eric
"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

Jobro
Posts: 861
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:34 pm
My cats species list: 12 (i:7, k:8)
My aquaria list: 3 (i:3)
Spotted: 3
Location 1: Germany
Location 2: Allgäu

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by Jobro »

The whole L52/L168 Dekeyseria/Zonancistrus debacle seems to be a complicated mess that needs some scientific work done asap.

Looking at l-welse.com gives at least a little clearer picture compared to planet catfish with regards to distinguishing between L52/L168. But I still do not know, if they should be called Dekeyseria or Zonancistrus :-(

L168, bright yellow color, keeps colors during stress, distinct contrast between colors




L52, darker color (color will get brighter in acidic water on bright substrate), loses most of its color during stress, no contrasts - colors are blured


(you don't need to understand the text to see the differences there)
follow my Plecos on Instagram: welsgefluester

User avatar
bekateen
Posts: 5766
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:50 pm
I've donated: $40.00!
My articles: 3
My images: 56
My cats species list: 103 (i:40, k:45)
My aquaria list: 30 (i:14)
My BLogs: 31 (i:108, p:1599)
My Wishlist: 33
Spotted: 126
Location 1: USA, California, Stockton
Location 2: USA, California, Stockton
Contact:

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by bekateen »

"So many catfishes, so little time... and space... and money." - I said this after visiting Pier Aquatics.
Image
http://youtube.com/user/Bekateen1
Would you like to buy my fish? Click HERE for prices.

Jobro
Posts: 861
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:34 pm
My cats species list: 12 (i:7, k:8)
My aquaria list: 3 (i:3)
Spotted: 3
Location 1: Germany
Location 2: Allgäu

Re: How delicate are Pseudolithoxus tigris?

Post by Jobro »

Maybe they are indeed L52 then? The specimen on your last picture looked so nice. But on the prior video they do look more like my L52 used to look.

L168 and L52 are probably just two color morphs of almost the same species. Depending on catch location, there might be some "in between" color forms and you might have gotten one of these forms. Just a guess on my side.
follow my Plecos on Instagram: welsgefluester

Post Reply