Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by Bas Pels »

Chances are indeed that what works for Corydoras might very well work for Holosternum.
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by dw1305 »

Hi all,
MissNoodle wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:10 pm I have them in a container of RO water with a pH regulator to keep pH at 7 same as my tap so it's not a major change when they are transitioned back to my tap once older.
I think that might be your problem. If you have hard tap water? I'd just add that to get to a conductivity value, I use about 100 microS. (~65 ppm TDS) and I'd also still add some tannins via Oak (Quercus) leaves etc.

I'd stop using the "pH regulator". I'm going to assume it is a phosphate buffer (di-sodium phosphate and sodium hydrogen phosphate).

Buffering and pH stability is quite a complicated subject area and nearly all the comments made on fish-keeping forums (I know this is a forum), by LFS and by the manufacturers of aquarium buffers are either totally wrong or totally irrelevant.

cheers Darrel
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by MissNoodle »

dw1305 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:22 pm Hi all,
MissNoodle wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:10 pm I have them in a container of RO water with a pH regulator to keep pH at 7 same as my tap so it's not a major change when they are transitioned back to my tap once older.
I think that might be your problem. If you have hard tap water? I'd just add that to get to a conductivity value, I use about 100 microS. (~65 ppm TDS) and I'd also still add some tannins via Oak (Quercus) leaves etc.

I'd stop using the "pH regulator". I'm going to assume it is a phosphate buffer (di-sodium phosphate and sodium hydrogen phosphate).

Buffering and pH stability is quite a complicated subject area and nearly all the comments made on fish-keeping forums (I know this is a forum), by LFS and by the manufacturers of aquarium buffers are either totally wrong or totally irrelevant.

cheers Darrel
I wouldnt use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

So in order to keep my pH stable, I have to keep the pH from going all over the place. If my pH didn't jump by the time water changes are due, I wouldn't bother. But, it's very heartbreaking to lose a full tank of fish and don't want to do that again. I lost all but 3 pygmy cories. All of my microdevario kubotai, 15 pygmy cories... gone in a water change.
Another fish keeper a couple blocks down is having same problems raising fry as well, it's causing him problems too, though the city insists the water is unchanged. But using the test kits, we can say it has.

It works for my adult fish, but whatever is contaminating my water kills fry that previously thrived in my tap and kills my neocaridina shrimp, so I started using RO for my fry and shrimp and maintain the same pH for easier transitions when they're old enough to transition back to tap.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

But even a small amount of tap mixed with the RO kills fry as well, tried it with some tetra fry and lost all of them.
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by bekateen »

MissNoodle wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:25 pmI wouldnt use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.
Sorry you lost fish, but I need to raise the question as to whether pH was the cause. I have some tanks at pH 4. When I do water changes, the pH rises to 6. No deaths and sometimes fish spawn. It's not that I try to do this, it's just happens.

Of course, some fish species are more sensitive to pH changes than are others, but in general, a pH change of 1 point is generally pretty safe (if water isn't too hard).

So I'm wondering, 1) What species died? And 2) what else might have been a cause?

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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by MissNoodle »

bekateen wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:59 am
MissNoodle wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:25 pmI wouldnt use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.
Sorry you lost fish, but I need to raise the question as to whether pH was the cause. I have some tanks at pH 4. When I do water changes, the pH rises to 6. No deaths and sometimes fish spawn. It's not that I try to do this, it's just happens.

Of course, some fish species are more sensitive to pH changes than are others, but in general, a pH change of 1 point is generally pretty safe (if water isn't too hard).

So I'm wondering, 1) What species died? And 2) what else might have been a cause?

Best,
Eric
It went from 7.6 to 6.4 within a water change, fish started spiraling and dying within an hour. Water dechlorinated, etc. Normal standard water change, nothing was different. Change the water every 7 days, only thing off was the pH suddenly when it used to be the same every time, until they did plumbing work on the street. It's been months after and my pH is still all over the place. It's too high after 1 week of sitting so when refilling the fish react.

It was a tank of nano fish, so more delicate. 7 microdevario kubotai and 15 corydoras pygmaeus all dead within an hour of that water change.

The larger fish flash, but don't drop dead.

There was nothing else out of the norm except the pH change suddenly.
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by bekateen »

It could be pH, but also some things (e.g., sulfide gas, chlorine levels) aren't measurable with standard test kits.

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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by dw1305 »

Hi all,
MissNoodle wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:25 pm I wouldn't use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.
MissNoodle wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:25 pm So in order to keep my pH stable, I have to keep the pH from going all over the place. If my pH didn't jump by the time water changes are due, I wouldn't bother. But, it's very heartbreaking to lose a full tank of fish and don't want to do that again. I lost all but 3 pygmy cories. All of my microdevario kubotai, 15 pygmy cories... gone in a water change.
Another fish keeper a couple blocks down is having same problems raising fry as well, it's causing him problems too, though the city insists the water is unchanged. But using the test kits, we can say it has.

It works for my adult fish, but whatever is contaminating my water kills fry that previously thrived in my tap and kills my neocaridina shrimp, so I started using RO for my fry and shrimp and maintain the same pH for easier transitions when they're old enough to transition back to tap.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

But even a small amount of tap mixed with the RO kills fry as well, tried it with some tetra fry and lost all of them.
I'm really sorry for your losses, and I know that fish keepers in the USA have to contend with tap water that would be illegal in Europe, but I'm pretty sure Eric (@bekateen is right), and it isn't the pH change that is causing the problems.
MissNoodle wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:25 pmI actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.
You would need to use another source to add some dGH/dKH.

If you don't mind a bit of variability "oyster shell chick grit" works or you can make a bespoke mix from potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) and magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O) details are at <"James's Planted Tank">.

cheers Darrel
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by MissNoodle »

dw1305 wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:43 pm Hi all,
MissNoodle wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:25 pm I wouldn't use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.
MissNoodle wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:25 pm So in order to keep my pH stable, I have to keep the pH from going all over the place. If my pH didn't jump by the time water changes are due, I wouldn't bother. But, it's very heartbreaking to lose a full tank of fish and don't want to do that again. I lost all but 3 pygmy cories. All of my microdevario kubotai, 15 pygmy cories... gone in a water change.
Another fish keeper a couple blocks down is having same problems raising fry as well, it's causing him problems too, though the city insists the water is unchanged. But using the test kits, we can say it has.

It works for my adult fish, but whatever is contaminating my water kills fry that previously thrived in my tap and kills my neocaridina shrimp, so I started using RO for my fry and shrimp and maintain the same pH for easier transitions when they're old enough to transition back to tap.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

But even a small amount of tap mixed with the RO kills fry as well, tried it with some tetra fry and lost all of them.
I'm really sorry for your losses, and I know that fish keepers in the USA have to contend with tap water that would be illegal in Europe, but I'm pretty sure Eric (@bekateen is right), and it isn't the pH change that is causing the problems.
MissNoodle wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:25 pmI actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.
You would need to use another source to add some dGH/dKH.

If you don't mind a bit of variability "oyster shell chick grit" works or you can make a bespoke mix from potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) and magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O) details are at <"James's Planted Tank">.

cheers Darrel
I use Seachem Equilibrium to boost GH with the RO water :)
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by MissNoodle »

Spawn #5 last night
20210702_134502.jpg
Spawn #4 only had one fertile egg, go figure. It hatched and it's with the slightly older bunch from Spawn #3 which have been doing good with no losses, all growing steady and eating very well.


I do agree there is something else with the water that contributed to the issue, something that isn't tested for, something that either coincided with the pH crash or caused the pH crash and I dont know what. Otherwise if it was just a pH problem, the fry would survive using the pH regulator in my tap and so would my shrimp, but alas even a small portion of tap wipes out all my fry within a week and kills my shrimp. And city doesn't care or know, so I won't get answers.

So I have no choice but to buy RO from the lfs, remineralize it with Equilibrium, and use the pH regulator on all my tanks to keep things stable for less stress on my adult fish.
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by dw1305 »

Hi all,
MissNoodle wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:43 pm I use Seachem Equilibrium to boost GH with the RO water :)
That is fine for dGH.

Seachem won't tell you exactly what compounds are in "Equilibrium", but they are calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H20) and magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O). Details are at "UKAPS:Alternatives to Seachem Equilibrium".

I'd still like to add a minimal amount of carbonate hardness (dKH), via potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), it is cheap to buy as food grade and you would only need ~ 2 dKH.
MissNoodle wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:47 pm and use the pH regulator on all my tanks to keep things stable for less stress on my adult fish.
I wouldn't get hung up on pH stability, the pH is never stable in soft water.

Because you keep planted tanks you would naturally changes in pH during the diurnal cycle as the ratios of oxygen (O2) and CO2 change during photosynthesis. This natural process is actually being stopped by the pH buffer.

cheers Darrel
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by MissNoodle »

Spawn #6
First time it's been 2 spawns 2 days in a row.
20210703_091235.jpg
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by bekateen »

Again so soon? Terrific!
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by fishguy1978 »

Wow, that's awesome.
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by MissNoodle »

High hatch rate these last 2 batches. Moved about 100 yesterday from the hatchery to the nursery, and today this is the ones that got moved. Still more eggs good left to hatch.
20210707_115429.jpg
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by fishguy1978 »

MissNoodle wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:31 pm High hatch rate these last 2 batches. Moved about 100 yesterday from the hatchery to the nursery, and today this is the ones that got moved. Still more eggs good left to hatch.
20210707_115429.jpg
Wow. That is so cool.
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by MissNoodle »

Spawn lucky #7 was finally able to witness and document the actual spawning process
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by bekateen »

Really cool!
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by MissNoodle »

Time for my oldest guy to move to the parent tank :D

He or she has grown so well
20210815_184255.jpg
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by MissNoodle »

Hes so happy to join his parents!!
20210815_220319.jpg
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20210815_220420.jpg
20210815_221157.jpg
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Re: Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

Post by bekateen »

Wow this is so cool!
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