Sorubim lima and BN

[kizno1]

I saw one today that was about 8" and £24. Im really tempted but im not sure if it would work in my new tank. Would one be ok in a 5'x2'x2' tank? and would a adult eat a fully grown common BN. I dont think one will work but just though i would ask.

[MatsP]

I wouldn't think that a 5" BN would be at danger from even a fully grown Sorubim lima.

--
Mats

[kizno1]

I wouldn't think that a 5" BN would be at danger from even a fully grown Sorubim lima.

--
Mats

Thats great then i though people where going to say the BNs would disappear. Does £24 sound like a good price for one at 8"?
The plan for the stocking is
2 gold severums
1 BGKF
4 red head tapajo geophagus
1 female Nicaragua Cichlid
3 BNs
1 lima
and then a few dithers but not decided what yet.

[MatsP]

£24 doesn't sound like a bad price, but to be honest, I don't know how much they usually are.

--
Mats

[kizno1]

Fair enough. I thought it seemed quite good. It looked in good quality aswell looked well feed and was active.

[TheFishGuy]

If you have some sort of verticle type decor like a stick even... They love to rest on them with thier snout pointing down. Mine always did a head stand on a plastic brontosaurus! LOL

[kizno1]

If you have some sort of verticle type decor like a stick even... They love to rest on them with thier snout pointing down. Mine always did a head stand on a plastic brontosaurus! LOL

Haha. Ive been looking around and alot of places say they often do it. The tanks not set up yet but there will be loads of wood and bits.
What do you feed yours? most places just say muscles, prawns and pellets.

[Viktor Jarikov]

mine love any meat, never taken a pellet in their life with me (~0.7 year, 5", 10", and 12").

In NE USA, they go for ~$15-25 for 3-4" ones.

[kizno1]

What meats do you feed them?
Is your one at 12" fully grown because the size seems to vary alot on sites between 12 and 24"

[MatsP]

"meat" should be fish-meat - to avoid transfer of parasites, the fish should preferably be marine. Also prawns/shrimps, mussels and such would be excellent food.

Cat-eLog list 16.5" as the max size, and I expect that 12" isn't fully grown, particularly if 12" is TL (total length) rather than the Cat-eLog's SL (standard length - not counting the tail-fin itself, just to the end of the muscle at the back of the fish). At around 16" one would expect the tail-fin to be at least 2-3" extra, which brings us to a bigger size. Further, the

Sorubim

genus does have a few other species that superficially look very similar, and at least some of them described in the last few years, which makes it possible that other species have been imported under the name of S. lima because anything that looks similar "can't be anything else".

--
Mats

[kizno1]

Thanks
Can any marine fish work or are there types to avoid?

So including tail they will get to about 18-19" long. Thanks for clearing that up.

[MatsP]

I'd avoid fatty fish - like mackerel, tuna and related species. But almost any cheap fish in the frozen isle of the supermarket should be fine.

And like all fish, not all fish grow to their full potential.

--
Mats

[kizno1]

Thanks.

Yeah good point.

Are they quite fast growning? if they are i might have to find a smaller one or add it last because all the other fish will only be about 3-4" apart from the BNs and none of them are massively fast growing especially not the black ghost knife fish.

[kizno1]

What type of shoaling fish would work with a lima. I was going to go for Ameca splendens or emperor tetra but now i want a lima i think both of them would get munched.

[kizno1]

What type of shoaling fish would work with a lima. I was going to go for Ameca splendens or emperor tetra but now i want a lima i think both of them would get munched.

[Viktor Jarikov]

What meats do you feed them?
Is your one at 12" fully grown because the size seems to vary alot on sites between 12 and 24"

Of course, like Mats said, aquatic meats. To mine I give mostly raw tilapia, whiting, shell-on raw shrimp, occasionally bay mussles, calamari, f.d. krill, plankton. I've never tried beef heart yet but Larry Waybright is making good points about trying it out - just need to learn to prep it right. One big advantage is beef heart is cheap.

Mine at 12" TL is far from fully grown.

Mats brings about an excellent point about look-alikes, i.e., close relatives of S. lima and I aso remember vividly one recent discussion about Sorubim hybrids and their possible wide-spread abundance in the trade! Milton Tan knows about that, if I am not mistaken.

Are they quite fast growning?

Not in my hands. In 0.7 years my small one went from 4" to 5", approximately, but it gives you a ballpark #.

What type of shoaling fish would work with a lima.

S. lima hands down!!! if you mean shoaling with S. lima , if not than I do not know and the question may be too broad.

[kizno1]

What meats do you feed them?
Is your one at 12" fully grown because the size seems to vary alot on sites between 12 and 24"

Of course, like Mats said, aquatic meats. To mine I give mostly raw tilapia, whiting, shell-on raw shrimp, occasionally bay mussles, calamari, f.d. krill, plankton. I've never tried beef heart yet but Larry Waybright is making good points about trying it out - just need to learn to prep it right. One big advantage is beef heart is cheap.

Mine at 12" TL is far from fully grown.

Thanks. Ill see what i can get and what sort of prices then.

Are they quite fast growning?

Not in my hands. In 0.7 years my small one went from 4" to 5", approximately, but it gives you a ballpark #.

Thats alright then maybe a 82 one wouldnt be to much of a problem then.

What type of shoaling fish would work with a lima.

S. lima hands down!!! if you mean shoaling with S. lima , if not than I do not know and the question may be too broad.

I was meaning what type of shoaling fish wont a lima eat. I want some dithers for the cichlids but all the ones i was thinking of i think a lima will eat.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I was meaning what type of shoaling fish wont a lima eat. I want some dithers for the c*****ds but all the ones i was thinking of i think a lima will eat.

yeah I know; I was just playing word games with you, I guess, as the question (barring the following sentence) was ambiguos

All I can say is that the fish should be significantly larger than lima's mouth and say be at least 1/4-1/2 the length of lima. It's a rule of thumb, of course, because there are other factors, e.g., some fish are able to defend themselves better than others, some are better, faster swimmers, occupy top, or middle vs. bottom, etc. Limas do not have as large a mouth as many other big cats, like Pims, Ompoks, etc.

[kizno1]

haha
Fair enough ill see what i can think of. Do you think a BN will be alright with a fully grown lima?

[Viktor Jarikov]

i know next to nothing of plecos but didn't Mats said that a fully grown 5" BN should be safe in the company of even fully grown Lima? I cannot help with another opinion here.

[Viktor Jarikov]

yeah I know; I was just playing word games with you, I guess, as the question (barring the following sentence) was ambiguos

oh, I remember the other reason for saying that: people have great things to say about a shoal of lima! Ask Back from Finland! He is HUGE on limas - it is even his avatar.

[MatsP]

I believe a bristlenose would be safe. They are not easy on the mouth of any fish, and it requires a REALLY greedy fish to even give it a go - have you touched the fins of a large bristlenose? Or the cheek-spines (interopercular odontodes).

But it is not my fish, so it's easy for me to sit on my chair in the office and say that it's safe!

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

Mats brings about an excellent point about look-alikes, i.e., close relatives of S. lima and I aso remember vividly one recent discussion about Sorubim hybrids and their possible wide-spread abundance in the trade! Milton Tan knows about that, if I am not mistaken.

Yeah! Before I forgot again and in view of the above, I must say I am not proficient enough and neither can I take a good look at my 10" and 12" ones in the 25-foot pond to be 90%-100% certain that I have three limas! They are rather lima-looking to be technically correct given my lack of profound expertise and ID effort. The fact that they were sold as limas (one was a rescue) does not mean much at all - the LFSs are there to sell fish and do not have the time/desire to research WHAT they are actually selling.

[kizno1]

I believe a bristlenose would be safe. They are not easy on the mouth of any fish, and it requires a REALLY greedy fish to even give it a go - have you touched the fins of a large bristlenose? Or the cheek-spines (interopercular odontodes).

But it is not my fish, so it's easy for me to sit on my chair in the office and say that it's safe!

--
Mats

Yeah i have and it hurts thats one of the reasons i thought they might be ok but im still a little wary because if it hits 16" a 5" BN could look like a nice snack. I guess i can give it a go if i get a small one hopefully it will never picture it as food.

Mats brings about an excellent point about look-alikes, i.e., close relatives of S. lima and I aso remember vividly one recent discussion about Sorubim hybrids and their possible wide-spread abundance in the trade! Milton Tan knows about that, if I am not mistaken.

Yeah! Before I forgot again and in view of the above, I must say I am not proficient enough and neither can I take a good look at my 10" and 12" ones in the 25-foot pond to be 90%-100% certain that I have three limas! They are rather lima-looking to be technically correct given my lack of profound expertise and ID effort. The fact that they were sold as limas (one was a rescue) does not mean much at all - the LFSs are there to sell fish and do not have the time/desire to research WHAT they are actually selling.

Ill have to have a look through the other types and see if theres a good way to tell them lima apart from them.

[kizno1]

Looking though the pics im 99% sure that it was a lima but the elongatus do look fairly similar but the other to dont look as similar.

[Viktor Jarikov]

the hybrids issue is by far and large the most formidable obstacle to ID-ing - I have no good way to work it out with pics and descriptions; there is one scientific paper (I think it was mentioned/linked in one thread) that has some info on Sorubim hybrids but not sure it is comprehensive and has good pics

[kizno1]

the hybrids issue is by far and large the most formidable obstacle to ID-ing - I have no good way to work it out with pics and descriptions; there is one scientific paper (I think it was mentioned/linked in one thread) that has some info on Sorubim hybrids but not sure it is comprehensive and has good pics

Do you know where it is? i wouldnt mind having a read through that.

[Viktor Jarikov]

a quick search (using search tab) simply on "sorubim lima hybrid" provided the right hit !!

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 6&start=20

here is the link courtesy of TP (thanx a lot, TP!!!!!)

Report this postReply with quoteRe: members currently keeping sorubim lima
by TP » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:36 pm

Sometimes I wonder if we are all actually keeping Sorubim Lima.

There appear to be five species of sorubim and all look pretty similar but sizes of the different species range from 25cm TL upto 80cm TL

This is a really good paper to read if you like these fish.

http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/2007f/zt01422p029.pdf

Sorubim cuspicaudus which is the largest species at 80cm TL can be determined by its having a forked tail with two straight lobes whereas all the rest of the species which are between 25cm and 50cm TL have a rounded bottom lobe. There is a good illustration in the paper (page 6) that shows it probably a lot better then my description.

It would be interesting to know if people have larger ones if they are actually S. cuspicaudus.

[kizno1]

Cheers for that. I only had a quick look through but ill read it more tomorrow.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I think you will benefit from reading the entire 3-page thread too
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23836&start=20