Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

All posts regarding the care and breeding of these catfishes from South America.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Buddiechrist »

Updated response before but forgot to mention, I'm talking from Fry - 24 inches. I once made the mistake (was told it was best kept in packs) bought 5 of them (all 1.5-3 inches) that night NO joke I ONLY had 2 REALLY FAT guys left. Separated them to one got a tank with pleco to itself other went into Armor'd catfish tank, until one day the one with the pleco jumped into the other tank with the other and armor'd cats and was eaten by the bigger one in that tank, so now I have the last one left named Hannibal the Cannibal. He is currently 8 inches and in a tank with two 15 inch ID Sharks and a broken COMPLETELY vegetarian 16 inch Marble Catfish.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Wow. What a story... and then there was one... Please, keep us posted of this soap opera. I wonder how little Hannibal's life will be turning out. If it continues to be that... action-filled, maybe one day you can write a children-book story on it that will be entertaining and educational :) Good luck. :)
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Time for an update. The following is only facts:

-- I have a concrete pond, about 1500 gal; ~12' diameter, ~20" deep except a 6'(diameter) x 4' hole in the center.
-- All the cats in that pond would, naturally, reside only in the hole for 1.5 years.
-- My 15" ZZ graduates to the pond.
-- Little-by-little, over the course of 2 months, none of my cats reside in the hole anymore, except a 2.5' IDS (who I see because he is not lying on the bottom, being an IDS of course) and my ZZ (who I don't ever see). Two 20" albino channels, a 20" blue channel, 20" TSNxLeairius, and a 15" leucistic walking cat all started to chill around in the shallows :-O . The last one (who I could never ever see in the pond before) to emerge was 15" Pimelodus albicans with serious skin wounds.
-- They go in the hole only when I scare them by working around the pond and then come back out. Only one channel hangs sort of around and about the top of the hole or mid way.

***Hypohetical conclusion: ZZ must have claimed the hole and chased all out but does not care about the IDS because it never occupies the bottom.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Forgot to mention that my Pimelodus albicans is a like a street tough, ever since I got him at 7" he's been often found to be war-minded with the tank mates... looking for a fight. I'd understand if he was picking on other pims like blochii thinking "hey, this is my territory" but he didn't like channels and bullheads either.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Viktor Jarikov wrote:... ***Hypohetical conclusion: ZZ must have claimed the hole and chased all out but does not care about the IDS because it never occupies the bottom.
The last 1-2 months, the water has been particularly clear. I do not see ZZ in the hole - not an easy task but more or less doable in full sunshine. I only see him with a flashlight after dark doing laps in the hole, not bothering anyone.

Now I tend to think the previous observation was likely a coincidence. Perhaps, during the hottest months, the cats could have been coming out of the hole to be closer to more oxygen and poor little ZZ was thought a monster he is not.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Redtailrob »

Morning Viktor.
I'd still bet this was the ZZ. Hence the other fish steering well clear of the Hole.
I recently aquired x 2 5" Dovii Cichlids (1 Male, 1 female) & was hoping to grow them on.
Placed the female in the same tank as the ZZ But partioned separetly.
Everything was going fine until one morning the Dovii had vanished ....somehow it had managed to get into the other part of the aquarium containing the ZZ & had become a very tasty snack! :((
I should never have put it the tank, partioned or otherwise.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by necrocanis »

Hi there everyone. I am checking out everything catty as I get back into the hobby and I saw a reference in here to the jaus I have kept. I would like to share my experience with both individuals I kept.

The first one I kept I received at 11" as a donation. He was thin and near death. After a few days of clean water he started to nibble blood worms. I then offered him shrimp which he greedily ate. After he was fattened up and around 14" I decided he was showing too much aggression towards other tank mates. He had ate 2 limas around 11" each. I had a 1000 gal pond set up in my garage and I moved him into there. His tankmates were 2 albino channel catfish @ 12" and 14", a rtc @ 13", a D. sexafasciatus(spelling), a knife fish @ 16", and a tsn @ 14". So here's how that situation went down. Everything was good for about the first week. He was even coming up to eat pellets from the surface with the Channels during the day. And whenever I checked on him he was lounging in the company of the other fish behind the in pond filter. All seemed fine. I went out the next day to find that he had bitten a channel catfish in half(the smaller one) it's head was floating, the other channel was missing a pectoral fin, and had bite marks all over it. The rtc was mangled with bite marks all over. The tsn was hiding on the other side of the filter with bite marks. The sexafasciatus was dead ripped apart, and the knifefish was filleted down to the bone. I set up an emergency q tank for the rtc and kept an eye on the remaining fish. No one would go near him after that day. He would chase away any fish that came near him. Once he hit the 18" mark I had a heater failure in the middle of winter and the water temps dropped into the 50s over night. He died and the other fish survived.

The second one I got at around 1.5" in length. He was all pink with black spots. Not aggressive at all when I got him. I fed him blood worms and krill to start with. He was housed with a juru, and filamentosum to start with and a few ID sharks. Once he was around 6" he started to kill off the IDs and the juru had bite marks on him so I seperated him to his own tank. I tried to intergrate him and the filamentosum but they fought way too much mangling each other. I put him in his own 100 gal pond when he was around 10". He was alone there til my ex killed him at around 14".

Hope this helps add to what has already been said.

Tnx
Cliff
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Good to see you here, Cliff. Thanks for sharing. Sounds very savage. I cannot imagine how a 14" ZZ can bite in half a 12" channel, not that I don't believe the facts. So, after that day, only your ZZ, the 14" channel, and the 14" TSN remained in the pond, right? And no more big problems, just chasing away?
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by necrocanis »

This is true. He would just chase and nip them after that. I didn't get to keep him for an extended period of time. I was hoping to have him huge, but you know how it goes. He just seemed to want his own spot. I think once acclimated he wanted to set up his territory. As for the channel obviously he tried to swallow it tail first. He couldn't get it all down that way so he bit it in half. Never saw him move much during the day except to chase other fish away and take shrimp when offered.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by necrocanis »

The only other fish I have owned that was this territorial or aggressive was my hybrid rtc x tsn. he would bite the tails of any other catfish that you put in with him. He would not even tolerate being in the same tank as my rtc when the rtc was 26" and he was 36". He nearly ripped the tail right off the rtc. He did rip the tail off my 24" planiceps when the hybrid was 32". Seems tail biting is quit common among catfish ime.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Redtailrob »

Necrocanis, Im glad you mentioned your RTC x TSN.
Mine is an absoulute ******* too!! /:)
Was fine up until about 6 months ago & now bites & harrass's everything!
Its around 26" & literally over a period of 2 Days started attacking both a 28" TSN & a 30" P. Mammoratus, made a right mess of the latter, fortunately this has now all healed & both fish have been moved elsewhere in the fishhouse.
I will keep my P.Lutkeni/Zungaro separate from anything else, a) I dont want them damaging any of my other fishes & b)They're too precious :d
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by richb »

Hi All,

I'm a noob here but long time fishkeeper. I picked up a Zungaro about a year ago as a 3" (8 cm) specimen at the LFS. The LFS had received him/her as an unknown small, predatory cat. The LFS owed me and pushed me to take the unknown (Zungaro) cat. I kept the fish alone in a 15 gallon tank for about 8 months. The fish initially would only eat live fish, no pellets or frozen thawed. The fish grew slowly. At about 8 months, the fish started taking frozen thawed silverside pieces. It immediately began to grow rapidly. It has been a bit over a year and the fish is approaching 2'. I keep it in a 360 gallon with a 3' Pseudodoras, a couple of S. membranaceus, and 3 large clown loaches. All the fish were given to me by a LFS that went out of business. The Zungaro is trying to take the smallest clown loach and either the loaches or the cat needs to be moved. Both big cats are waiting for repairs to be completed on 1,000 gallon tank where they will be moved as soon as it is ready. From my perspective, the feeding aggression is no worse than that of a 2' Sorubimichthys. Both get frozen thawed climbing perch purchased from the local asian market. The climbing perch are about 6 per lb. The cats will each eat 2 at a feeding. I feed them 2 and sometimes 3 times per week. I have a short video of the fish eating a climbing perch off hemostats. I will post it if anybody is interested and I can figure out how.

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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Redtailrob »

Great stuff. Would love to see the Video Richb :d
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Hi RichB! Welcome to the Planet. Very pleased to see another big fish keeper here - there aren't many of us here.

Thanks for the info on your Jau. I am quite surprised to learn that it only took live foods for you for the first 8 months. Have you tried hard to wean it off live? It is interesting to see that dead foods (apparently) caused it to grow much faster. It must be that he ate more of that because usually it is other way around – with proper live foods predators grow the fastest.

Your Jau’s growth rate far exceeds that of mine. My oldest must be ~3 years old and still under 1.5’ :( Have no clue why. Appreciate the tip about the climbing perch. Can you post a photo of it? I need to go check out my local Asian food store then.

As this thread is about Zungaro’s aggression, how do you find yours? We are actually not talking here about a predatory aggression but rather territorial and other non-feeding related types.

I assume you are talking about Pseudodoras holdeni (and I’d like to know why you think it is not the far more common Oxydoras niger) and Sorubimichthys planiceps.

I’ll be very curious to see the photos and vids of your tanks and fish. I do suggest you start your own thread for that purpose in the “South American catfish (Everything else)” forum.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by richb »

Thank you for the kind replies and questions. I am trying to finish the 1000 as quickly as possible. It is almost done. Both the Zungaro and the planiceps are growing extremely fast. Both are taking 10" smelt twice a week. While the smallest clown loach is much smaller than the food the Zungaro is now taking, he is still there. However, all three clown loaches leave when the Zungaro starts shooting around as I approach the tank. Sorry for implying the Pseudodoras was something else; it is a niger. I did not know there was more than one species or would have been more specific. The Pseudodoras is a solid 3 feet. Currently, I plan to move the Pseudodoras, the Sorubimichthys planiceps, and the Zungaro to the 1000. I have never posted to youtube but will try time permitting. I have seen no signs of anything but feeding aggression.I have the space to keep the fish longterm as I have an 8'x24' by 35" deep tub in my heated fishroom. Actually, you can see all three fish at Ted's Fishroom. He visited late last year and has posted a fishroom tour video. To see the video, select the Bireley's Fishroom Tour, currently second on the list at: http://tedsfishroom.com/category/video- ... ish-rooms/
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Superb video by Ted and your place is amazing! I assume this is Ted from Seattle, WA, right? The guy who has an 8000 gal tropical pond outside? - http://www.anythingfish.com/ ?

Simply beautiful. Thanks so much for sharing. You really should have it in your own thread to give it full attention it deserves - it is somewhat lost embedded deep in my thread.

I loved your big trio. Hoover the niger is spectacular. Was the zungaro able to swallow that climbing perch? Looked big for it but I think it could do it with some effort. I am also a bit surprised the planiceps could swallow such a big fish too.

Lovely, lovely, lovely.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by richb »

Hi Viktor,

Ted is Ted Judy from Wisconsin. Super nice guy. Neither cat had trouble with the climbing perch. Actually, within a couple of weeks, the Zungaro was taking two at a sitting. I am feeding them smelt now. When I went back to the Asian market, the climbing perch came two to a pound instead of six.

Regards,

Rich
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Redtailrob »

Viktor any update on your Jau?
I moved my smaller specimen, approx. 15" at the weekend into one of my 8 ' foot ponds. No trouble 1st night, 2nd day noticed a few abrasions on the flanks & tail of my 15" & 18" Calophysus / Mammoratus and a couple of marks on the flanks of my Big 18" P. Bass.....cause for concern...... 3rd night/ day.......P.Bass absolutely shredded along the flanks & tail completely white on the L.Mammoratus !!! Jau has been removed again to a separate Pond.
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

I'd guess the pond's too small. In my 1000 gal, my two-footer has been quite fine with a bunch of pond mates, a dozen of large pims, other cats, etc. When I had to add my 3-footer to this pond as an emergency then the two jaus started fighting real bad. They are both beat up and are in a state of a fragile truce at the moment keeping to separate areas of the pond but I really don't know if they both be alive by the time their 4500 gal is ready (again).
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Re: Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

Post by Redtailrob »

3 foot!!! Wow that's a specimen!!
Any pictures Viktor?
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