Dwarf goonch

All posts regarding the care and breeding of catfishes from Asia.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Chicxulub »

Richard B wrote:Feeders are potentially problematic as all sorts of diseases could be present without manifesting themselves. Have you tried earthworms ( night crawlers) my bagarius used to really take them aggressively
Indeed. I've yet to have a fish that won't take worms. Earthworms are actually higher in protein than quality foods like Massivore, so I'm considering switching to using them as a staple food source. I'm moving in a month or so and I think that after I do, I might start a worm farm!
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Tyty13 »

Hmm ill have to try them with him. I have a Lima shovelnose in with him at the moment and he eats night crawlers. I did hold one in front of his face for a few seconds to see if he'd take it. But as I've learned with him after 3-4 days of no food it's easy to sway him onto something new.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Tyty13 »

Chicxulub I did a water change today and noticed something different about Diablo. He has started developing black speckles on his fins and they seem to be an orange yellow color. Now it's safe to say that they're the same indeed.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Chicxulub »

Good stuff! It's always good to see real world corroboration of a hypothesis take place! :D
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Tyty13 »

Just wanted to add a pic of what he does around feeding day. It's great how he's become less shy and comes out and shows this behavior
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Tyty13 »

Somebody please help me! My goonch was swimming around perfectly 2 hours ago and now is drawing his last breaths the tank has had nothing done to it a week... Why did this happen
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by JamesFish »

Try an air stone in the tank running if its low o2 he should pickup quickly.

Filter might be clogging up preventing circulation. It's a guess.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

I see he died from your other thread.

It looks to me that the redness on the fish in the last ventral shot could have been a sign of an illness spreading all over his body or at least a strong stress that leads to reddishness spread to fins and other areas. Hard to say from that photo. Has he stopped eating then?

Fish rarely die out of the blue when there have been no changes at all. Please, describe the last week or two of his behavior and the eating. The dynamics is what is likely very important. Like you said, he started to come out a lot and swimming a lot against the glass. That could have been not a sign of shyness going away but of an illness and restlessness.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Tyty13 »

His meals had consisted of hikari carnivore pellets every other day for the past two weeks and my last water change was 50% 15 days ago. I cleaned my filter then. Tank mate was a Lima shovelnose which is now in quarantine just in case. There was no hostility between the two that I saw. I ran an aquaclear filer rated for up to 75 gallons in the tank which is 55 gal. Ph was neutral. Multiple plants in the tank too. It was in my room which gets sunshine for 5 hours a day usually so the plants should had helped oxygen levels. But the Lima shows no signs of stress or problems with breathing or eating. The Lima eats earthworms, perhaps that could of brought bacteria into the tank, I doubt it though. I truly don't know what went wrong... He was a great fish and I feel very upset to have lost him. I'm going to continue to research and try to find out what went wrong. I'd love to know and understand what happened so one day I can try get another one. Maybye a Yarelli. This certainly isn't the end of my love for this species.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Silurus »

What was the water temperature?
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Re: Dwarf goonch

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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Redtailrob »

All the Goonch species are tricky to look after especially at smaller sizes & too begin with. I too lost my 1st 2 purchased in quick sucession :(( but "knock wood" appear to have everything better suited 3rd time around as have had mine now for a number of years. I cannot stress enough the importance of excellent water quality, good flow & High aeration with these fishes. You make no mention of Nitrite or Ammonia levels in your post & these 2 water parameters are by far the most important as Bagarius especially small/young specimens will not tolarate anything but the smallest levels of these two dissolved compounds.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Richard B »

Redtailrob wrote:All the Goonch species are tricky to look after especially at smaller sizes & too begin with. I too lost my 1st 2 purchased in quick sucession :(( but "knock wood" appear to have everything better suited 3rd time around as have had mine now for a number of years. I cannot stress enough the importance of excellent water quality, good flow & High aeration with these fishes. You make no mention of Nitrite or Ammonia levels in your post & these 2 water parameters are by far the most important as Bagarius especially small/young specimens will not tolarate anything but the smallest levels of these two dissolved compounds.

Totally agree Rob: i'd go further & say always zero nitrite & ammonia & absolutely minimal levels of nitrate
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Tyty13 »

I said water test was all green across the board in the other post. My water test read the lowest amounts of both nitrate and nitrite. Neutral ph a little closer to alkaline than acidic, but still classified as neutral. What should I add to the tank if I plan on getting another one. Airstone? I have a oversized aquaclear filter and a rio 800 powerhead. I forgot the brand but a completely adjustable heater. I just really don't know what happened and it absolutely drives me crazy. Throughout my classes and while at work all I do is hypothesize things that could have gone wrong. I even used my Lima shovelnose as a lab rat to see if there's anything wrong with my water. He's been moved back to the former goonch tank and shows nothing wrong eating happily and remaining healthy. This incident has also set me back on my aspirations of getting a tigrinus cat, which from my homework is harder to keep than the goonch. Frustration is an understatement... Sorry if I ranted.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by mickey3 »

IMO Your water was probably OK but the results are limited by the quality of the test kits used. Your fish may have been carrying a parasite which caused the fish to succumb to a secondary bacterial infection as evidenced by Viktors observations despite your efforts because being in a captive environment is a stressor by definition which the fishes immune system may or may not be up to handling. That reddened area may have been an external manifestion of an internal infection. One way to potentially prevent this is to treat the fish with a course of Metronidazole in the food followed by a course of Praziquantel in the water. Both of which IME are well tolerated by the catfish I keep. Even with this and other therapeutic options there are no guarantees. The only way to know for sure would have been to send the fish to a fish pathologist for autopsy with cultures etc.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Redtailrob »

Tyty without being picky is it possible to post you water test results here? Im not quite sure what green across the board means? as in all your tests come up green or all your test pass the green light for OK?
You'll find a wind variance in test kit results. With regards to Nitrite & Ammonia you really need to be very particular with the test kit you use as the difference in say 0.05pp/ml to 0.1pp/ml may be tiny on a test kit but to a fish such as a Goonch would be deadly/massive. Although your Lima shows no signs of distress in the tank you have to understand that all fishes react differently & can cope with different water parameters. What some fish will happily live in fine without showing any signs of distress would kill others in Hrs. Not getting on at you buddy, just trying to help :d
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Tyty13 wrote:I said water test was all green across the board in the other post. My water test read the lowest amounts of both nitrate and nitrite...
What's green? As Rob says, please, name/describe/photograph the test kit/test results and give us the numbers, please. What's the lowest amount? Zero or the lowest significant number (usually 0.25 ppm = 0.25 mg/L or close to it)?? What units? Etc.
Tyty13 wrote: This incident has also set me back on my aspirations of getting a tigrinus cat, which from my homework is harder to keep than the goonch...
My thinking is the opposite w.r.t. this comparative statement. Yes, Brachyplatystomas are more sensitive versus, e.g., RTC and TSN, or IDS, or the very hardy channel and bullhead catfish or goldfish/koi, but goonch are most definitely an order of magnitude more sensitive than the tigrinus cat and other Brachies.

IME and that of others that I read about, roughly 2/3, if not 3/4, of all goonches die in transport and acclimatization and many more die relatively soon if their water is less than perfect or an ammonia spike occurs, etc. I am talking across all keepers.

With tigrinus, I'd say the death/illness rate in transport and acclimatization is 1/10, hardly 1/5.

Again, this is generalizing, just to give you a flavor of my (personalized) observations of the trade. Anyone is more than welcome to disagree or correct me.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Richard B »

In my experiences (from working in the trade & at home ) bagarius are harder to keep than tigrinus

Is your powerhead moving the water around the tank or is it significantly moving the water surface? Do you use a venturi/diffuser on the powerhead? The addition of an airstone (preferably with a high output of tiny fine bubbles - like wooden airstones) cannot be recommended enough to ensure maximum oxygenation. Airstones & airlines need to be cleaned/kept free of sediment build up regularly.

most test kits are actually notoriously unreliable & the lowest allowable amount of NITRITE should always be zero for Bagarius - anything above that is asking for trouble
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Viktor Jarikov »

Richard B wrote:... most test kits are actually notoriously unreliable & the lowest allowable amount of NITRITE should always be zero for Bagarius - anything above that is asking for trouble
Richard, why did you single out the nitrite? In neutral, slightly alkaline, and alkaline pH, any ammonia over zero is asking for trouble too, and the more alkaline pH is, the more trouble the ammonia will cause.

In acidic pH, ammonia NH3 is converted into the 1000 times less toxic ammonium cation NH4+ (because it does not get absorbed into the blood through the gills, while NH3 does easily; NH4+ is what NH3 is converted into inside a fish and is actually what causes the ill effects) and again, the more acidic the pH, the more of NH3 is converted and hence, the less toxic is the ammonia level shown by the test.

Liquid tests do not distinguish between NH3 and NH4+, they measure them together as an aggregate.
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Re: Dwarf goonch

Post by Richard B »

Viktor
Nitrate generally has a presence in a lot of tanks & we should endeavour to keep this to a minimum. Some cats are more tolerant than others - for example my synos can handle a bit but euchilichthys suffer at even small build ups. All my fish would suffer if nitrite registered & if ammonia registered I'd be in dire straights. My tanks are all relatively small in the grand scheme of things so need careful management. I do this with excessive filtration & aeration ie using fluval 4s in 18-24" tanks with at least one airstone added.

I chose to quote nitrite as some nitrate is generally to be accepted butwe should strive to have zero nitrite & this can be achieved
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