Territorial behaviour in female L397-but what can I do to resolve it.

[pleconut]

At the weekend i posted a thread about one of my female L397s seeming to show keen interest in one of the males. The night before he had moved into another cave. And the female was showing a lot of interest in him. I placed cardboard on the tank, for a couple of days until i went to feed and check up on them. The male has moved again but in regards to the female as if she's claimed the entire area of the tank for herself, and has been chasing and charging at any of the other females that seem to invade her patch, its not over any specific cave, there's a cave under some slate, with wood and another cave above the slate, and I've provided more than enough caves and adequate hiding spots ect for all of them. The cave which was the male was at the time this all began she's now in this cave most of the time and when another female is in her patch she starts the chasing again. It wouldn't be a big concern as adults can hold their own, but she's charging mostly at the 2 youngest ones. I've tried adding a different piece of wood. But it didn't seem to change much and If anything made it worse. Could do with some ideas or advice here.

[Mol_PMB]

Teresa, are you expecting logic from the mating behaviours of boys and girls? I so wish logic could be applied in such situations - I might be doing better myself! ;)

[pleconut]

No logic to it really, the male has moved on, yet she's still protecting the area he was in three over 3 days ago.

[bekateen]

She's probably singing, "Baby come back!," by the band Player (https://vimeo.com/14991730); that's why she's not leaving that spot. Not helpful? Sorry, I know. But Mol_PMB is right - sometimes there's no explaining the behaviors of our fish.

[Mol_PMB]

Hehe, I wasn't just thinking of fish!

girls !
boys !

I think I'm better off sticking with engineering - numbers don't mess me about quite as much...

[pleconut]

And chasing off the others at the same time, part of me is hoping he will go back to his old cave then she is happy and hopefully the other ones all are. Has to be hormone related she's very bad tempered.

[bekateen]

Teresa, on a serious note, is this your Aquarium #7 we're talking about? And if so, does it still essentially resemble the photo you have published on your "My Aquaria" page? If so, then I might suggest really breaking up the aquarium open space - just make the whole tank a tangle of various pieces of wood, literally "piled" with wood pieces in all spaces and pointing all directions, and with the caves scattered about (purposefully, though, so that you can still check inside with a flashl... er, I mean torch). It won't be as pretty as your current tank, but it may just make the environment so complex that the aggressive female really can't keep track of everyone around her.

Don't fear that it will inhibit mating. In fact, it might help.

Cheers, Eric

[pleconut]

I was considering a shopping trip to Maidenhead Aquatics tomorrow and buying a load of branches and just piling them into the tank. Yes it is aquarium 7 not many changes have been made to it since the picture.

[Mol_PMB]

The park is cheaper than MA...

[pleconut]

Probably I'm also not far from the new forest, I suppose I could go out foraging for some wood. I'd need a good starting point for safe woods to collect though. There's some places a bit nearer home i could try foraging at.

[bekateen]

I'd need a good starting point for safe woods to collect though.

My criteria for "safe" pieces of wood are as follows:

• The more weathered it looks, the safer it probably is: To me, the perfect piece of wood is sun-bleached and its bark is worn off completely.
• Nothing that appears to be a conifer (pine, cedar, etc.). I try to avoid them because of the resins they contain in their tissues, which I've been told can be harmful). I don't know what species of trees you have around you, but there are enough people on this website from the UK who should be able to touch on this that you should be fine. Also, there was some discussion of woods, with more links, in this thread: Re: Mustard spot pleco (Panaqolus albomaculatus) project.

.
Then there are the esoteric points, not about safety but functionality and looks:

• Thick but not too long - a bunch of 3mm wide twigs would just disintegrate or crack apart when I try to clean the tank in the future, so the sticks have to be thick enough to withstand a certain amount of force and abuse.
• Finally, it looks cool: twisty, knotty, tangled, fractured, or split all look good to me, whereas sawed-off with a tool is not as interesting to me (not that the fish can tell the difference though, LOL).

Cheers, Eric

[pleconut]

So maybe Maidenhead Aquatics wont be my destination tomorrow just the local walks, parks etc. Obviously one more question comes to mind though as i live near the sea, I'm thinking of salt deposits and such like, is there anything apart from thoroughly washing, soaking and such that I need to do with the wood.

[bekateen]

Last summer I picked up some driftwood along the Pacific coast in Washington state. All I did was a really thorough soaking and rinsing to get rid of salts and any external stuff. But I don't know about L397 - if there is any residual salt in your wood, will it harm that fish? How soft/clean does their water need to be?

[pleconut]

They require softer water but I live in a hard water area, but in the tank its softened over time. I'm not sure how tolerant/intolerant they are of salt. Aquarium salt was recommended and used recently with no problems. Obviously wood collected would be also thoroughly cleaned, boiled, soaked etc. Obviously more wood would mean increases in the Panoquolus associated maintenance, but less territorial behaviour and hopefully more chances of breeding.

[pleconut]

Awesome! My back garden is a Panaquolus species dining table. Last summer all the trees in the garden were cut back and most of the wood wasn't taken away but left behind. However it needs cleaning and drying out completely before I can see if its suitable to use but the wood is damp but dead and most of the bark has gone.
Edit.
On closer inspection some of the wood was elder wood, very soft and spongy so may deteriorate rapidly in a tank, but most of it is a much harder wood with a very dark bark, most of which is completely straight with branches coming out of the straight part, so it will make for a good background in one of my planned Panaquolus tanks.

[pleconut]

So for wood that would be ready to go straight into the tank, I went to Maidenhead Aquatics to get a load of wood, for the price it was though i did look at and consider the fruit trees for sale in the garden centre next door . As collecting it drying it out preparing it woud be a bit of a long process. I do plan to go foraging though for other projects way before spring comes. At the weekend a good clean up / rearrangement of the tank is planned. Then hopefully the female's will behave slightly differently.

[pleconut]

Well, the male has now returned to the cave the female was showing so much interest in and defending all of this week, and she's showing a very keen interest in him again, I was due to put a pile of branches in today but because of this development, I'm thinking of delaying it slightly now. And although this female has been territorial, she's not actually harmed any of the younger ones. Should I board the tank up again but maybe just at that end though. BTW I updated the my cats pages yesterday, that very sweet and innocent looking pleco in the picture, is the female in question when she was a lot younger, but still as fiesty.

[bekateen]

Personally, I'd keep the tank covered daily if you want them to spawn.

Cheers, Eric

[pleconut]

I will cover the tank again, and see what they do, meanwhile the ABNs are at it also, they are in another room all lights are off and will not be disturbed, but maybe checked tomorrow. However I should start sorting out some fry tanks, in case both the L397s and ABNs spawn, will be no problems though as I always run extra internal filters that are mature in each tank, for such eventualities.