New here, with Albino Corydoras Aeneus and Zebra Danios

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 12 Dec 2006, 20:58

Hi all. I am new to this forum. I have a 29 US gallon tank with 6 baby albino cory and 3 Zebra Danios. All of them are really friendly to me. I wasn't expecting that. They swarm around my fingers when I am trying to get water samples. They even try to swim into the test tubes!

I will probably be having a lot of questions over time. My tank has been populated only since Sunday.

My main problems so far are keeping a steady temperature--I can do so but it requires diligence on my part and I figure there has to be a better way-- and figuring out what to do about maintaining a favorable pH, since my tap water runs at 8.0 and occasionally a little higher.

I think I will be sticking to catfish and the Danios. I originally had other kinds of fish under consideration but these guys have been so amusing & pleasant together I don't want to rock the boat and mess up a good thing. I think my next additions will be upside down catfish and whatever other synodontis species I can find that will get along with my mix and my size aquarium. I am open to suggestions on that, (after I provide more information of course).

I'm also considering a Rio Xingu Pleco I saw at the LFS but need to figure out if the ones I saw have been correctly identified by the staff.

I will be back later with more details about what I'm doing, my test results to date, and the chemicals I am using so I can ask better questions. Meanwhile, just wanted to pop in and introduce myself. Oh almost forgot...I'm a 40 year old mom, live in MidAtlantic region of the USA. I used to be in the hobby with my dad when I was a young girl and am now reviving the hobby for my 2 year old daughter & her adoring grandpa.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 13 Dec 2006, 11:22

Welcome to Planet Catfish.

Keeping the water temperature reasonably stable [1] shouldn't be too difficult if your tank is placed in the right place. Obviously, if the tank is placed near a sunny window or someplace else that have a greatly varying temperature, then that can cause a problem. Otherwise, a thermostatic heater should do the job. I use the "Visitherm" brand, which I'm very happy with - but other brand heaters are also available and most of them should have a decent enough thermostat to keep the temperature within one or two degrees F. If you buy a new heater, check that it's one of the type that switches itself off when it's "out of water" - some don't, and they tend to crack or break if you don't switch them off when you change water - not a nice thing to do, you may electrocute yourself and having to buy a new heater.

Of course another factor of water temperature is when you change the water. Make sure you add new water that is of the same or slightly LOWER temperature than the water in the tank. This is what normally happens when it rains, so as long as you don't suddenly drop it several degrees, you should be fine. New water that is WARMER than the current tank water is a bad idea, as it lowers the dissolved oxygen levels in the water.

What are your current problem with keeping the temperature stable?

I wouldn't worry a least bit about the pH. Both Danios and are able to live in fairly high pH water, and as long as you're not trying to breed them, they should be fine in just about any water that is reasonably clean.

There are dozens (if not more) plecos that are from Rio Xingu, so it's not so much "whether it's been identified correctly by the staff" as "Which of the many Rio Xingu species is it". Rio Xingu is around 1200 miles long, so there's enough space in there for a few different fish. My concern with you having a Rio Xingu fish with C. aeneus and Zebra Danios is that the latter two species like a lower temperature than the 26-30'C (80-86'F or so) that the Rio Xingu fish would prefer. The other aspect is that if you don't know what species it is, you'll not be able to tell its ultimate size - a 29g tank is fine for smaller plecos from Xingu, but there are also some that are pretty big, like that grows beyond a foot. [Sorry, we haven't yet got a way to list fish from a particular river - it's being worked on, but may take a while before all the work is done, mostly because there are about 1600 species of fish that probably need more or less manual updating of where it's from!]

Finally, please consider that your tank is still "cycling", i.e. building the natural good bacteria that takes care of the fish-waste - this will take several weeks, and I'd suggest you don't add any new fish during this time, nor do any large water changes unless the fish are clearly suffering.

[1]It's not like the water in the river/lake that the fish comes from originally is ALWAYS exactly one particular temperature, even in the tropics where your fish originates from, the temperature will vary depending on time of day and season - even if there's no real winter, the rainy season will drop the temperature both because the rain-water is cooler than the water already on the ground, and the cloud covering the sun will reduce the heating from the sun, and when it's "summer" (dry season) the water levels drop and the water temperature goes up.

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Mats

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 13 Dec 2006, 21:49

Hi MatsP! I'm probably not going to add a Pleco after all. I don't think my tank would support one, not once my cories grow up. I really don't want the tank to be too crowded. The cories are all over the place. There's only 6 of them yet it seems like there are 24 because they're so busy and active.

My tank is in a nice location--no drafts, no windows. It's the heater: it runs too hot and I have no way off turning it off and turning it all the way down has no effect whatsoever. I either have to plug it in, or unplug it. If I were to leave it on during the day when the light is on, and the house temps are set at 69F to 70F, the tank temp will be as high as 78 to 80F. I can maintain a good temperature range (74-76F) by keeping it on at night when the tank light is off, and the house temp is 68-69F this time of year. Thank you for telling me what brand heater you have. I will take a look at them. Obviously, I need to change the heater! Oh...the tank light doesn't throw off too much heat. I've had it off during the day, too, and at most the temp difference is 2 degrees.

Thanks for the caution about not adding any more fish too soon or doing any big water changes. Will listen to you on that. I need to research them more anyway. I don't really plan on expanding the population all that much, either. Possibly the minimum recommended number of upside down catfish, and then I'll add about 3 or 4 more danios to complete my school, and maybe a couple more cories of a different color...possibly non-albino forms of the ones I have now.

Of course I am interested in other types of fish...but those are for another time, another tank in the far distant future. My current "crushes" include Synodontis Angelicus and the South American Redtail Catfish. Sigh...only in my dreams...

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 14 Dec 2006, 10:10

hellocatfish wrote:Hi MatsP! I'm probably not going to add a pl*co after all. I don't think my tank would support one, not once my cories grow up. I really don't want the tank to be too crowded. The cories are all over the place. There's only 6 of them yet it seems like there are 24 because they're so busy and active.

I do think you could fit another pleco in there with the current fish - even a couple more if you wish. But it's defitnitely a good idea to be low rather than high on the stocking levels!

My tank is in a nice location--no drafts, no windows. It's the heater: it runs too hot and I have no way off turning it off and turning it all the way down has no effect whatsoever. I either have to plug it in, or unplug it. If I were to leave it on during the day when the light is on, and the house temps are set at 69F to 70F, the tank temp will be as high as 78 to 80F. I can maintain a good temperature range (74-76F) by keeping it on at night when the tank light is off, and the house temp is 68-69F this time of year. Thank you for telling me what brand heater you have. I will take a look at them. Obviously, I need to change the heater! Oh...the tank light doesn't throw off too much heat. I've had it off during the day, too, and at most the temp difference is 2 degrees.

Is this a new heater? If so, it should be under warranty. Can you prove that it's faulty by putting it in a bucket of really hot water? If it switches off at pure hot water, how much cool water do you need to add before it turns back on again? If it switches on before you reach 90'F (you'll need a thermometer to check that), you should be able to take it back to the shop and make the same experiment in the shop. Note that it takes a few minutes for the heater to reach the surrounding temperature, so you probably don't want to go to the shop when they are really busy for this excercise - I'd count on spending half an hour or more in the shop to prove it's broken
Thanks for the caution about not adding any more fish too soon or doing any big water changes. Will listen to you on that. I need to research them more anyway. I don't really plan on expanding the population all that much, either. Possibly the minimum recommended number of upside down catfish, and then I'll add about 3 or 4 more danios to complete my school, and maybe a couple more cories of a different color...possibly non-albino forms of the ones I have now.

Of course I am interested in other types of fish...but those are for another time, another tank in the far distant future. My current "crushes" include Synodontis Angelicus and the South American Redtail Catfish. Sigh...only in my dreams...

S. angelicus is possible to keep in a home tank, but it needs more like a 100g+ tank than the 29g you got now. The RTC is a different matter - they are not for homes, however cute they look at 4-6", they will grow to that number of feet, requiring a seriously large heated pond (20 x 10 surface area, and at the very least 5 feet deep, and with a temp of around 70-75'F at all times of the year).

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Mats

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 14 Dec 2006, 21:12

LOL--Oh I know there's no way I could have that red-tailed catfish. I've had the privilege of seeing one in a public aquarium--I visit that fish every summer when we go on vacation.

I'm really enjoying a "less is more" "zen" aquarium. My dad had always kept cories two or 3 to a tank as scavengers, not showcased them the way I am. I'm utterly amazed at the difference keeping them this way makes. They're really shining as stars of the aquarium. The Danios seem to be mimicking them, sometimes. I still have only the 3 and they seem to be considering themselves honorary cories.

My biggest problem now is knowing how much to feed them. Of course I know I should not overfeed, but I haven't yet found out how much is too much with these guys. The Danios go to the bottom to feed like I thought the cories would, in fact swimming like the cories do and looking like little "dustbuster" vacs, and the Cories are everywhere, high and low, sucking up the flakes. The food disappears rapidly...yet to me it seems like I put in more flakes than I should. From past experience I'm used to feeding VERY sparingly. These guys seem like little pigs, and the cories are growing right before my eyes!

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 15 Dec 2006, 06:57

I got the Visitherm! Nice heater. Unfortunately I just found a white spot on the tail fin of one of the Zebra Danios. I've been searching this forum to learn what to do, in case it is ich. Unfortunately I don't have a hospital tank nor the means/space to set one up at this time.

I had to do a 10% water change last night because I didn't like the color of the nitrite test result --it wasn't totally into the detectable zone color, but it wasn't absolute aqua blue zero either. Nitrates looked okay...meaning I don't think my tank is cycling so great yet. Ammonia on the borderline, as it was with the nitrite. I think I have my answer to was I overfeeding or not!

Anyway, since it was late and I was tired, I didn't let the water age up to room temperature like I have done in the past. So there was a temp drop almost down to 72. That might have been sufficient to trigger the ich spot. That and the not so excellent nitrite and ammonia readings. Again, they weren't scary high, but ideally they should be total zero, and they weren't...stressing my poor fishy. In other sad news, one of the other little Danios just got himself stuck in the intake tube of my AquaClear filter. My husband and I can't imagine how that could have happened. So I ripped the tube off the previous Top Fin filter and attached it to the AquaClear, as it has a finer strainer cap.

Sorry if my writing isn't so good on this post. I'm tired and very stressed out about my poor fish. I guess I can accept disaster striking the Danios but I've grown very fond of the cories. Several times a day I do a head count to make sure they're all okay. I wish I got to the Danio in time. I might have saved him.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 15 Dec 2006, 10:44

hellocatfish wrote:I got the Visitherm! Nice heater. Unfortunately I just found a white spot on the tail fin of one of the Zebra Danios. I've been searching this forum to learn what to do, in case it is ich. Unfortunately I don't have a hospital tank nor the means/space to set one up at this time.

I had to do a 10% water change last night because I didn't like the color of the nitrite test result --it wasn't totally into the detectable zone color, but it wasn't absolute aqua blue zero either. Nitrates looked okay...meaning I don't think my tank is cycling so great yet. Ammonia on the borderline, as it was with the nitrite. I think I have my answer to was I overfeeding or not!

Nitrite and ammonia are signs that your tank is cycling - it's "normal" to see readings for both during the first few weeks of tank being set up. You should really not CHANGE water to "fix" this, because you need these substances to make the bactera to defuse the harm of these substances and convert it into nitrate. If you keep changing the water, it will reduce the "food" for these good bacteria, so they won't grow as well as they should.

In a fully functional (cycled) bacteria culture, you shouldn't see ammonia or nitrite. But since your tank is newly set up, it hasn't got the full bacteria culture, so it can't cope with the ammonia that is generated by the fish - it's getting there, since you do have nitrite in the water, which is generated from the original ammonia. But you need to build up the second level bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate.

Anyway, since it was late and I was tired, I didn't let the water age up to room temperature like I have done in the past. So there was a temp drop almost down to 72. That might have been sufficient to trigger the ich spot. That and the not so excellent nitrite and ammonia readings. Again, they weren't scary high, but ideally they should be total zero, and they weren't...stressing my poor fishy. In other sad news, one of the other little Danios just got himself stuck in the intake tube of my AquaClear filter. My husband and I can't imagine how that could have happened. So I ripped the tube off the previous Top Fin filter and attached it to the AquaClear, as it has a finer strainer cap.

Sorry if my writing isn't so good on this post. I'm tired and very stressed out about my poor fish. I guess I can accept disaster striking the Danios but I've grown very fond of the cories. Several times a day I do a head count to make sure they're all okay. I wish I got to the Danio in time. I might have saved him.

Unfortunately, Ich (white spot) is often a problem the first few weeks of the tank being set up.

There's several posts on the subject on this site (as well as on other sites). My suggestion would be that you raise the temperature in the tank to somewhere in the mid-high eighties. That will stress the fish, but it will also help against the Ich. If that's not working, you need to choose:
1. Medicate.
2. Use aquarium salt.
3. Let it have it's run - some fish will most likely survive it. [Corys are generally more resistant than danios, for example].

Do a forum search for "Ich" and you'll get plenty of answers.

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Mats

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 16 Dec 2006, 05:32

Thanks for all your advice and help! Well when I went to check the fish as soon as I woke up, my husband had already checked and told me the white spot was gone, and sure enough it was. I had put the temperature up to 79F last night after the water change was finished. I stayed up for a couple of hours to make sure the temp wasn't rising too fast, and it was not. I love that visitherm heater, by the way. Thanks again for suggesting it. It puts the temp exactly to what I set it to and keeps it there. One less headache for me.

The fish look good so far. If they are stressed I'm not sure how I would know. Ever since I got them, they are the jolliest bunch. The only problem I've had is one of the Danios is a bit of a bully to the others. I think she will clean up her act after I finish adding enough Danios to make a proper school. I studied the fish in their tanks at the LFS for a long time before I bought them and they behaved pretty well at the store.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 19 Dec 2006, 11:53

Adding another few danions shouldn't be a problem (but wait until the tank is cycled fully). They can bully each other a little bit - that's a normal part of the hierarchy in the group. With a bigger group, there are more fish to take the beatings, so none of them get too badly beat up, if you see what I mean.

In the store, I bet they have a large number of them...

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Mats

hellocatfish · Post by **hellocatfish** » 21 Dec 2006, 20:51

SO far so good...keeping fingers and toes crossed, but fish are doing well. I have found if I keep the aquarium light off, the bullying is kept to a minimum. I prefer the light off anyway--I can see the fish just fine with the ambient room lighting and I like that they can see me and come up and watch me watching them! WIth the light off I also see behaviors I had not seen before, like the cories all lining up and resting on the bridge ornament.