L239 Blue Panaque & Stress

Vik · Post by **Vik** » 22 Apr 2003, 21:00

I have a 55 gallon tank with two L239 (used to have 4), three L046, one L177 Gold Nugget, one L121 Wormline Pleco, one Three Beacon Pleco and two L200 Shark Fin Green Phantoms. The tank has caves, driftwood, rocks and lots of plants to hide in. Is this tank too crowded for the Blues to live happily? The reason I ask, two of my L239's have died in this tank and no other fish have. Water temp is 80 degrees, Nitrates and Nitrites are normal, no ammonia. Both fish looked normal when I took them out of the tank, just clouded eyes. Any suggestions? Am I doing something wrong?

Plec0maniac · Post by **Plec0maniac** » 23 Apr 2003, 01:53

Hi i think that there is a little aggression cuz clouded eyes are sign of bitting, and infection.. Be careful cuz recently i lost 2 panaques due to aggression..

U could added more hiding places, and feed enough food during night time

Hi yann tnx for the suggestion of reducing my plecs in half, I started with my panaque tank, removing all the Papa panaque sp... And Are L330 aggresive??? Cuz The bitting started wen I placed 3 2.5inch L330 in my panaque tank and even the big ones gets bite marks!

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 23 Apr 2003, 06:51

Hi!

Yes 55 gallons is not much space for the fish you are keeping and some of them grow rather large...
Regarding the L239: were they the last one introduced in the tank, did you quarantine them before?

Plec0maniac: I don't like talking much about agression as it is a pretty negative term, I'd rather talk about territoriality.
Regarding L330, I doubt it is the most territorial Panaque, it is just a coincidence, what might happen is that he has been looking for a place to hide and the only he found were already occupied by bigger Panaque and they did not see him as a potential threat to their cave.
Cheers
Yann

Vik · Post by **Vik** » 23 Apr 2003, 18:33

The L239 were introduced right after the L046. They have been in the tank approx. 5 weeks. They were in a quarantine tank for 12 days before that. The only pleco to show any territorial nature is the Three Beacon, maybe I will move him to my 80 gallon tank at home. The others plecos seem to be doing well, just the L239 are struggling. I feed a variety of foods, including zucchini, spirulina pellets and brine shrimp. I did have to treat the tank for ich two weeks ago, but everyone seemed to be fine after that too? Do they prefer small caves? There is a large cave, which could easily house several plecos that only has one L239 and one L046 living in it. Is it too big to feel secure maybe?

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 23 Apr 2003, 19:47

Hi!

Well it could be several factors that made the 2 L239 die.
How were the body of the fish when you took them out.
Sign of disease?
Sign of combat?
Sign of starvation?

A cave that is too big for the fish can be a source of stress yes, usually if it is possible he will be looking for a better fit...still I doubt it is the cause of the death of your fish!!!
Cheers
Yann

Vik · Post by **Vik** » 23 Apr 2003, 20:08

When looking at the fish, there were no split fins, no bites, no sores. The only behavior that was odd was that they both seemed to come out into the open and go onto the tank walls two days before they passed on. They stayed near the area of the tank where the water flowed the most. When I checked Nitrate and Nitrite they were fine. The other two L239 seem fine right now. What do L239 like to eat?

Thank you! Vicki

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 23 Apr 2003, 20:22

Hi!

Well such behavior are typical form a fish that is sick.
Were the Icht still present when they died?
Did you noticed any red spot marked, near the mouth, anus, and beginning of the fins ( jointure with the body)

Regarding the food: I would say omnivorous, try feed them Gammarus, brine shrimps, once in a while blood worms), some vegies such as zuccini, cucumber, peas, sprouts...

Cheers
Yann

Vik · Post by **Vik** » 23 Apr 2003, 20:42

The ich was gone completely when the second L239 died. I did not notice any red spots, but I did not look specifically for anything like you described. He was very faded in color and his eyes were clouded, otherwise he looked healthy. This morning one of the remaining two was out on the glass too. The odd thing is, none of the other fish are showing any signs of stress.

Plec0maniac · Post by **Plec0maniac** » 24 Apr 2003, 16:27

hi yann thanks for the info

Vik I think that ur old plecs are now territorial bec they are in your tank for a long time now. And when u added the L269, they were stressed bec of the fact that they are being thrown out of the habitat and left in the tank glass, which is bad. Try rearranging the decors in the tank and try to give more food at night time and be sure to water change in the morning for any leftovers

Dont remove the heater even if the ich is gone bec. the visible ich is the eggs which covers the fishes body, once that you change the temparature to a colder temp, the ich will come back, trust me

Hope this helps

Gusluck with your plecs...

Vik · Post by **Vik** » 24 Apr 2003, 17:08

Thanks everyone! I appreciate your help and will keep watch and cross my fingers for them.

Vicki