aspidoras pauciradiatus

[dedee]

Hi All,
I am a new member, I was looking for people to help me deal with the situation in my tank

In short, I got a 54 liters tank and last week I was looking for a couple of small corys to start it off. As the tank is so small I was hoping I'd find some habrosus or hastatus. In one shop they had 2 tiny corys in a tank with a lot of shrimps, a large betta and an agitated bunch of endlers. The catfish didn't move and looked very unhappy. They were labeled as c. habrosus. I went to another shop where they had another couple of the same small catfish, this time labeled as c. hastatus, in a tank with c. pigmaeus and lots of tetras chasing them around for fun. So I got the two little ones and went to the other shop and got the other two. I accommodated them into the tank and then did a little research on the web only to find out that not only they weren't either hastatus or habrosus but they weren't corydoras, they were aspidoras pauciradiatus.
I read all that I could find online, so I replaced half of the gravel (the front half, the back will be planted) with sand, and I know my pH is probably too high to reproduce them (7.5, tap water is 8 so the water changes raise the pH instead of dropping it).

They are active sometimes, at other times they just hide in the plant and in the decoration. Two of them are more active (swimming up and down the aquarium sides), they rarely hang out for a few minutes all four. I can't really tell whether they are happy or unhappy.

But my big problem is: according to stuff I found on the web, they are voracious eaters ... I got them tetra tabimin tablets but everyday I have to siphon the tablet out of the tank a few hours after I added it, as they are not interested. Sometimes they go near and sit immobile but I can't see if they taste some of the tablet powder, as they won't stay there if they see me. They "kiss" the decoration and the sides of the technical parts in the tank (internal filter, heater), but I don't think they find any goodies there as the tank is so fresh (two weeks now). I don't know what to do. I normally avoid no name tablets and I don't think getting other tablets will work. I will go tomorrow and get them some frozen brine shrimp but it may be too large for their little mouths.

Does anyone else have experience with this problem? Will they eventually adapt to it? Or are they just likely to starve to death with the tablet in the tank? As I write there is one sitting immobile a few centimeters away from the tablet, maybe it's eating... but they don't stay there long. Is it possible that they eat SO SMALL that they are unable to finish off a quarter of a tablet in a day? Uhh...



Thanks if anyone has had the patience to read all this

[Marc van Arc]

Hello Dedee & welcome to PC.
I wouldn't worry too much. They are relatively new, so give them some time to adapt. If the tablet doesn't work, try to feed them flakes.
Frozen food they might like and are able to swallow is for instance daphnia.
And keep a close watch of course - but you already did so

[apistomaster]

Based on my experience with Aspidoras pauciradiatus I consider them much more delicate than any of the three dwarf Corydoras species, habrosus, hastatus and pygmeus.
I have permanent breeding set ups of habrosus and hastatus. They are given live brine shrimp nauplii and black worms and earth worm sticks every day. I often kill live brine shrimp in with a quick exposure to hot water immediately before I use it for small bottom feeders and their fry in addition to using live nauplii.

What they do share in common is a tendency to fade away when not kept in groups of six, preferably many more, ideally in a species tank containing 20 or more. They will benefit from almost daily feedings of live brine shrimp nauplii and/or Grindal worms. I have not been able to keep A. pauciradiatus alive on prepared and frozen foods only.

I would only try keeping them with the very small Characins like Hyphessobrycon amandae, Ember Tetra, Hyphessobrycon(Meglamphodus) roseus, Golden Phantom Tetra, pencil fish species or small hatchet fish. The small Cyprinids, Boraboras sp and Galaxy "MicroRasbora", Celestichthys margaritatus, are also good choices as tank mates.

[dedee]

Uh...
I will get some frozen brine shrimp tomorrow I hope they will like it. If they do I hope it's going to be fine and maybe in time they will accept the tablets alternatively. If not I will get an air pump and heater and some brine shrimp eggs and then see if they like the young live ones. The problem will be that I travel a lot and will usually be away at least a whole week every month so I got some JBL holiday food but they might refuse that as well, I hope not.
Don't know about the frozen daphnia as it doesn't have much nutritional value.

It is the first time that I buy fish that I know nothing about (I had fish all my life), I thought one of the shops labeled them wrongly, not both... Had done some reading about the minicorys and so I knew they were supposed to be almost as hardy as the larger versions. I would rather not take the little monsters back to the shops as I think they will probably die there (on stones, with lots of other fish and no places to hide, and probably no one watching whether they eat whatever is on the menu).

They are alone at the moment. If they survive for about a month I will try to find others and have a group of 10. Then I might get a group of 6 lampeyes as they are hardier and peaceful and small. With the tank being so small that's about it.

[apistomaster]

Your plan sounds good to me but try to buy the baby brine shrimp rather than the adult form. Experiences vary but I have never found any fish that would show much interest in frozen Daphnia. Now, when it comes to live Daphnia, it's a different matter and almost all fish eat them with enthusiasm.

Once they are well acclimated and if their tank is well planted with perhaps a lot of Java Moss, they should be OK when you have to be away. Java Moss seems to promote the growth of a lot of larger microorganisms, like rotifers, which would be very helpful in tiding the Aspidoras over during those times you have to be gone.

[dedee]

I don't know yet what live foods I can find in the shops (I just got here last month, didn't yet investigate everything...), will see what I can get tomorrow. If they don't have small enough live stuff, I will try with the frozen brine shrimp (which I've seen in the shops) and will get the eggs and go ahead with that as well. I used to feed c. aeneus babies with adult frozen brine shrimp and they ripped the pieces up in groups like minipiranhas . Adult aspis must be at least as strong as that... I hope..

I will get some Java Moss too. A bunch of Cabomba aquatica and nothing else is currently taking over the tank (it's amazing how fast this beautiful plant can grow), but I will bring my own plants (grown by me since... forever) from home (bacopa, red ludwigia, cryptocorine willisii, hidrocotyle leucocefala, echinodorus tenellus) at the end of the month. I will have to abandon my beloved amazonicus as they grow too large for this bucket (the aquarium that I had to leave behind contained 250 liters, migration forces me to downgrade it's tough).

I am sure they eat something... right now they are running up and down and making persistent stops pushing their little mouths against the rubber of the heater and filter bases. There must be something interesting there...

[Marc van Arc]

Experiences vary but I have never found any fish that would show much interest in frozen Daphnia. Now, when it comes to live Daphnia, it's a different matter and almost all fish eat them with enthusiasm.

I fully agree, but as I have had some bad experiences with live food I will never recommend it to anyone just like that.

[dedee]

Hi,
I gave them live daphnia but I can't tell whether they eat... two hours later there are still daphnias swimming in the tank (I didn't put much in... just "washed" the plastic bag in which the daphnia were brought, in the tank) and the aspis swim around accross the aquarium glass sides as usual but I don't know if they eat... I will try have a better look later this evening when I can sit closer to the tank without them noticing (I feel like a stalker in my own home).

I unplugged the internal filter for about two hours, but was afraid to let it off for longer. As the tank is not matured, I don't want problems. I had a look now and I can see the daphnias being sucked into the filter (though it's not a strong filter, 240l/h for a 54 liters tank). What do you people do when you feed live food such as this?

I also got frozen cyplops and will try tomorrow. Also got Java Moss, they didn't notice it yet.

[apistomaster]

I use mostly sponge filters that don't remove live foods from the water but when I have power filters, the I do the same as you; turn them off for short periods and feed only what the fish will eat in that short time. Usually I turn them off for about 1/2 hour.

The Daphnia can be cultured in a spare bucket or similar container. You don't need very many for feeding a few dwarf catfish in a small tank.
It sounds like you have come up with enough varieties of frozen and live foods to keep the little Aspidoras happy. Despite the challenges, they are very interesting catfish.

I understand Marc's wariness of live foods but there is no danger feeding cultured types. There are some risks that come with collecting them from the wild but the benefits often outweigh those risks. A little common sense will avoid most problems but the subject of the pros and cons of collecting and using the various live foods would make up a lively discussion thread, I'm sure.

I still plan to get them again if I find some for sale.
I bought 25 from an internet fish store and mine came in very sick and my losses were high. Only three survived six months. I think if they had come in better condition they would have been less problematic. My LFS would never bring them in; they are attuned to the more common fish.

[dedee]

So sorry for the aspis losses Apistomaster... I hope you will find others soon.

I also used to use sponge filters when feeding live foods to fry but I wasn't prepared for this here. These fish don't eat in a short time though... I've always been used to ever hungry fish, my problem has never been that they wouldn't eat the food...

But I have news... The other day I went back to the shops I got them from, in hope to get some more in case they have any new ones. They didn't, but in the tank where two of these had been there were still four c. pygmaeus with maybe 30-40 angry labeos. The labeos were fighting most of the time. Occasionally they bothered the poor corys so I got the corys... and then went and got another three from another shop. I was a little worried, how would they react, maybe they won't like each other, is my tank really ready for more fish, so now I will have more problems etc... But as soon as I put them in the aspis started following them around, and the newcomers were going after the aspis as well... I was hoping they will find safety in numbers (usually, in my experience with "normal" corys, the more the happier, even if they were different types), but not that they would become such good friends. So now they hang out together most of the time, I can frequently see a flock of pygmies running in the middle of the tank followed by an aspi shepherd. And because the pygmies don't fear me, the aspis fear me less as well. Right after I put the pygmies in, the first times I had to go close to the tank the aspis were like "FREEZE OR RUN!!" and the corys "Oh please... it's just our new silly slave, let's continue to check this place out". So now I can sit next to the tank, move around, the aspis will still be cautious but will not hide, and if I stop moving they will resume their activities. They all hide of course if I actually touch their home but that is normal.

It's wonderful to watch them. The aspis are BIG, twice the size of the largest cory. When the corys sit, they look like they're dyin'... fins close around the body, and thrown right on their bellies like lost missiles... (luckily for my mental health, they don't sit for long...) When the aspis sit, they spread all their fins out, and "sit" on their side fins and tails, their bellies not touching the gravel/sand, in a very elegant manner. Also the corys go get air much more than the aspis, I've rarely seen the aspis do that.

I don't know how much of the live food they ate, nor how much of the frozen cyclops... as the food was all over the place and no one never seems to eat in the middle or at the surface of the tank, I can never tell. But now just for the sake of it, to see if maybe the corys are interested, I threw another quarter of a tabimin in... and surprise surprise one of the aspis definitely eats from it.. otherwise I don't understand what he's doing sitting immobile near the tablet and moving just a few inches every other minute...

So maybe they simply didn't know that was food? Maybe.

Given the colors of these fish, can anyone recommend me a background? I reckon black (as I was planning) would disadvantage the looks of the cory's black stripe?

Best,
D.

[apistomaster]

Sounds like you have found a good way to keep the Aspidoras happy. They are a delightful little catfish. Your's must be big ones if they dwarf your Corydoras pygmeus!
Discovering how every species has it's unique qualities is part of what makes ours' an addictive hobby.
I'd go for a dark background/light substrate or light background/dark substrate. They will adjust their colors to either scheme to some degree.

I noticed that Aspidoras are available again from a source I trust. Just have to recover from some recent expenses and I'll get another 25 if they are still available. The fish I want always show up when I'm broke. Aspidoras, wild Aplocheilus dayi and wild Peruvian Scalare. It would help if everything was from just one place because I want fish from three places and it's those 24 hour delivery freight charges that can blow the fish budget out of the water, so to speak.

[dedee]

Yes they are much bigger. I tried to take a few photos but as they are afraid of me and I don't have a very good camera it's tough:




In this case they don't actually sit in the manner that I had described... I have two smaller and slender aspis and two fat ones, the one in the photos is the fattest. So sitting graciously on the fins is out of the question
I am a little worried because one of the slender aspis is being beaten by the other small one. I didn't expect them to fight. I do have a spare smaller aquarium but I thought if I separate him it might be worse. He doesn't look good and I didn't see him come out and eat with the others (though with the frozen cyclops flying around everywhere in the tank I hope he finds some in the hidings as well), but sometimes he does group with the other three... I hope the aggression is just temporary (I've even had neons fight for a few days until they decided who's the boss and the fighting stopped).

[apistomaster]

Your Aspidoras look like they are in perfect condition.
Hopefully some more will show up. They would be nice spawning project. Small fish that don't require large tanks have always appealed to me. A. pauciradiatus have been bred but I don't think they are easy. It would be a satisfying accomplishment.

[dedee]

Hi All,
I hope it's ok to continue to post news here

The fish are still alive. The unpopular aspi is still unpopular and is now darker than the others. This can actually be observed in this photo:



He is behind the fat one, right side of the photo. I think the fat one is a pregnant female. It is obvious from this photo as well that the aspis are much larger than the pygmies. They in fact look better than most of the aspis that I've seen in photos on the Web (sorry for being so proud ).
The aspis still befriend the corys and vice versa, most of the time they don't discriminate at all. The behaviour is different though. For example a scared cory will disappear as soon as possible, a scared aspi will sit still (which has resulted in me being able to take a lot of photos of one aspi). The aspis spend more time immobile, and some time hovering. The pygmies don't hover. The pygmies seem more desperate to have company at all times.
I was away for ten days, I had left some holiday food and was worried that not all of them will survive. But they have and they all seem fine. They still don't like me, but whenever they think I am at a safe distance they are all playing at the front of the tank, especially near the spot where the food tablets usually drop. I got them some sera vivachips, and the 4 aspis+7 pygmies struggle a whole day to finish one tablet off (if you haven't seen the vivachips, I should tell you they are less than half the size of a tabimin tablet - they expand in the water though). I am unsure as to whether I should get other fish as well, at this pace they will not have time to feed anymore. But I might get 6 phantom tetras, they seem peaceful enough.

Also I finished planting the tank and I've put a black background. The result is this:



I had read that they like leaves on the gravel so I brought the red cryptocorine that rests its leaves on the gravel. They don't seem to have noticed it yet.

I do hope they will spawn. Maybe at least the pygmies.

[syno321]

Your set-up looks ideal for your dwarf catfish. I hope you get much enjoyment from keeping them!

[bslindgren]

Those are great looking fish. Hope you can add to the school. Great looking tank.

[dedee]

Thank you both for the encouragements
I am looking for more aspidoras, unfortunately I didn't see them in shops again (though most have the pygmies). Will keep looking.
I think I will also get a couple of colorful platies (after a lot of thought about phantom tetras, cardinal tetras, pencil fish, rams, dwarf gouramis and many others - I now got used to thinking about it and I suspect I will miss the difficulty of choosing, once I do get some other fish) to cheer the aquarium when I'm around and then only hope to find more aspidoras or that either of these minicatfish will do me the honor of spawning.

I managed to immortalize one of the aspis assuming the dignified posture that I was telling you about. Will replace the picture when I have a better one.

[apistomaster]

Some pencil Fish would be good tank mates. I think especially Nannostomus eques because they are so surface oriented, always looking up, small mouths and sedate behavior. Even if your cats spawned they wouldn't present much danger to any eggs or fry.

I think an Aspidoras species tank planted like yours is would present a good chance for a natural spawning set up. I do this with C. hastatus and C. habrosus. It isn't my intention to maximize production but enough fry survive to join the ever growing juvenile and adult school. They join as soon as they complete their metamorphosis from larvae to miniatures of the adults.
I placed a dozen surviving 3/8" Discus in with them temporarily and immediately after removing them from their spawning tank until they reached 1-1/4 inches and they didn't eat any Corydoras larvae.