Raphael looks like swam though cobweb/

[SOBERKITTY]

My Raphael has sort of a fuzz around him going back only as far as his dorsal fin. It almost looks he swam through a cobweb or that he's shedding. I don't think they do that though. I'll include a picture, it's the best I could get, he's stubborn like his mama! Any body have any ideas?

[Silurus]

What you are seeing is just the granular, bony portion of the neurocranium (skull). They all look like that naturally.

[Bas Pels]

I do wonder, however whether it is a raphael. Are raphaels not supposed to be black with white dots? This one remi9nds me of Platydoras, or related

[Marc van Arc]

Raphael = Platydoras
Spotted Raphael = Agamyxis (black with dots)

[SOBERKITTY]

Thanks. So far I have really gotten a lot out of this website. And you have all been wonderful. I've already learned a lot and hope to learn more. The thing i'm having the hardest time w/ is all the latin names. guess i'm just a simple informal kinda girl at heart. I'm still not sure if I understand how his skull has anything to do w/ something that looks like fuzz on the out side. Also Silurus used the word granular. When I think of granular I think of gritty. Like granules of sand. Can anyone explain this a bit more.

What you are seeing is just the granular, bony portion of the neurocranium (skull). They all look like that naturally.

[racoll]

Hello. Scientific names are well worth trying to pick up, as they eliminate a lot of confusion (like the above). You'll start picking them up eventually when you see them enough times!

The skull (the cobwebby bit) is just covered with a really thin layer of skin, so the pattern of the skull pushes through the skin to make it rough, or granular. Next time when you pick him up, touch it, it will be rock hard and rough.

Is that any clearer?

[SOBERKITTY]

Yes that makes sense. I sort of had a knee jerk reaction when you said next time you pick him up. I have seen a lot of pictures of people holding plecos out of the water. Is this not stressful for the fish even for a few miniutes? Is it really okay to handle fish? I can't think of a reason I would need to. Besides his pectorals look painful. So in my opinon, respect the weapon as well as the warrior.

[Bas Pels]

in all honesty, I do respect my Platydoras as well. If I need te replace them, I use a plastic basket or so, for fear they might get entangled in any net, and I fweel they might hurt me if I handle them with my hands

Loricarids I usually take out by hand, but not Platydoras

ps - Thanks, mark for claring things out. I only know the Latin names of my fishes

[Marc van Arc]

Thanks, mark for claring things out. I only know the Latin names of my fishes

Which is of course best (understandable to everyone worldwide). Fwiw: the first item listed under Cat-eLog is a list of all common names. Just in case

[racoll]

I have seen a lot of pictures of people holding pl*cos out of the water. Is this not stressful for the fish even for a few miniutes? Is it really okay to handle fish?

Provided you don't keep them out of the water for more than about a minute or so, and don't do it all the time, they will come to no harm.

Fish are not the brightest of creatures, and he will be back to normal in a couple of hours. Fish have to deal with stressful situations every day in the wild, and it will not phase them whatsoever.

I can't think of a reason I would need to.

In Britain these fish are not called raphaels, but are called striped talking catfish. If you pull him out, you will find out why. It is quite impressive, and you will learn something new about your catfish!

You are right to be wary of the spines though. They are very sharp, so hold him tightly by the head, over the tank or a bucket. As Bas Pels said, don't use a net, he will get caught in it.

[SOBERKITTY]

I was aware of the other name of talking catfish I just figured I'd never be in the situation of hearing him/her. Kinda like having a puffer and never seeing it inflate cause it has no predators in an aquarium. Unless you give it one and who would do that? As for picking up my critters think i'll wait till i'm little more experienced w/ having them. I did read somewhere that someone feeds their Platydora chicken.(cooked of course) My mom had just made chicken soup the other day in the pressure cooker and had left over pieces. I put a bit in the tank last night and both my Cory and my Platydora went after it. I think most of the time I'll stick to blood worms and some frozen Cichlid food I have that has some beef heart and small crustations. They all seem to love it.

[SOBERKITTY]

[Bas Pels]

I did read somewhere that someone feeds their Platydora chicken.(cooked of course) My mom had just made chicken soup the other day in the pressure cooker and had left over pieces. I put a bit in the tank last night and both my Cory and my Platydora went after it. I think most of the time I'll stick to blood worms and some frozen c*****d food I have that has some beef heart and small crustations. They all seem to love it.

I'm quite certain, no-one is feeding the fish in nature cooked chicken, or beef heart

in fact, I would warn you ahgainst feeding parts of warm-blooded animals to fishes. This is, because all warm blooded animals have calls which are on the border of becoming fluid at body temperature - 37 degrees for mammals, 42 for birds (if I rememeber correctly), and thus, in your fish, will be solid - even at 30 degrees C. Therefore, these parts will be very hard to digest

Parts of coldblooded animals will not have these problems, and are thus better. If you intend to feed them fish, eat the meat yourself, and geve your fishes the rests. These contain the most vitamins and minerals. Platydoras life a long life (mine 3 are almost 20 years) and thus don't need to grow as fast as possible. Starvation is common for wild fish, so we should try not to overfeed them

As for bloodworms, these are most often red musquito larvae, raised in polluted areas. Another feed I don't use, as is the case for Tubifex. The only exeption I would make, would be in case the brand is a well known brand for fishfeed, such as Tetra, or Hikari

[SOBERKITTY]

Okay. Anyone else have an opinion on this? I like to get at least 2 opions on everything before deciding on anything. I'll try and find the source I read before. Also any ideas on the least stressful way of moving this fish? I'm Moving in a month and want to have my game plan ahead of time. I may post in the tank talk forum as well to get a broad Idea since there are more then 1 type of fish in the tank.

[MatsP]

I tend to feed bloodworms to my fish - I know they are from "bad" habitats, but fish seems to like it, along with various "seafood" stuffs, such as the "seafood mix" that they sell in the supermarket which has mussels, prawns, squid, etc in it - not the ones in vinegar tho'. And vegetables where appropriate (such as to the Bristlenoses).

I don't feed any "warmblooded" meat to my fishes. I'd stay away from that, there has been more than one report about fat getting "stuck" in the fish from this.

--
Mats

[SOBERKITTY]

Wow. Okay thanks Gang! This has been great. I also posted a topic in Tank Talk regarding moving the fish so any suggestions head over there and help me please!

[racoll]

in fact, I would warn you ahgainst feeding parts of warm-blooded animals to fishes. This is, because all warm blooded animals have calls which are on the border of becoming fluid at body temperature - 37 degrees for mammals, 42 for birds (if I rememeber correctly), and thus, in your fish, will be solid - even at 30 degrees C. Therefore, these parts will be very hard to digest

While this makes sense on a logical basis, I am not aware of any evidence that it is actually an observed fact. Many myths are borne from anecdotal assumptions that make sense, but are not always true.

I'm sure Larry will know a bit more than me on this, but discus keepers have been feeding beefheart for decades without noticeable problems.

Having said this, I wouldn't take the risk given that perfectly good fish food is available, which has been subject to rigorous testing and product development for its suitability as a staple diet.

As for bloodworms, these are most often red musquito larvae, raised in polluted areas. Another feed I don't use, as is the case for Tubifex.

Are talking about live bloodworms here? There is indeed a risk of bacteria and disease with these, but most people buy the frozen blister packs which have been nuked to kill any nasties.

I've been feeding these frozen foods (including tubifex) since I started keeping fish, and I have not ever suspected that they caused a problem.

[SOBERKITTY]

Only frozen for me. Which makes sense that anything harmful is killed. But what about pesticide? Would that be "broken down" when frozen?

[MatsP]

Pesticides are most certainly not destroyed by freezing. Although I doubt that pesticides is really a huge issue here - high levels of pesticides would kill the bloodworms themselves.

--
Mats

[SOBERKITTY]

Oppps! Um duh! Not enough coffee yet!

[Bas Pels]

in fact, I would warn you ahgainst feeding parts of warm-blooded animals to fishes. This is, because all warm blooded animals have calls which are on the border of becoming fluid at body temperature - 37 degrees for mammals, 42 for birds (if I rememeber correctly), and thus, in your fish, will be solid - even at 30 degrees C. Therefore, these parts will be very hard to digest

While this makes sense on a logical basis, I am not aware of any evidence that it is actually an observed fact. Many myths are borne from anecdotal assumptions that make sense, but are not always true.

I'm sure Larry will know a bit more than me on this, but discus keepers have been feeding beefheart for decades without noticeable problems.

Having said this, I wouldn't take the risk given that perfectly good fish food is available, which has been subject to rigorous testing and product development for its suitability as a staple diet.

I can only refer to problems with cich lids, not with catfish. Many cich lids are sensitive towards 'bloat', Mbuna from Lake Malawi, Tropheus from Lake Tanganyica but also a lot of species from Central America. feeding them warmblooded meat will kill them, painfully. Feeding them the same amount of, for instance, krill will be possible, they might survive it.

Dicus are not the most sensitive fish in this matter, also because they are generally kept at almost 30 degrees, while the above mentioned african fishes need lower temps - around 24, C

As for bloodworms, these are most often red musquito larvae, raised in polluted areas. Another feed I don't use, as is the case for Tubifex.

Are talking about live bloodworms here? There is indeed a risk of bacteria and disease with these, but most people buy the frozen blister packs which have been nuked to kill any nasties.

I've been feeding these frozen foods (including tubifex) since I started keeping fish, and I have not ever suspected that they caused a problem.

As Matt wrote, pesticides will not be degraded by freezing, and, as far as I'm aware, radiation on foodstuf is striclty limited in Europe - it might be prohibited for fishfood. In any case, I would not assume it is radiated, and I'm not certain many pesticides are very sensitive towards radiation.

Besides, apart from pesticides (and other organic pollution) these bloodworms are said to contain high levels of heavy metals (lead, zinc, cadmium and so on)

[SOBERKITTY]

Wow well! I'll have to see if there are any indications on the frozen packaging I have of whether the foods are all "farm" raised or not. I bought it at my LFS and it was recomended over another frozen brand. Can't recall off top of my head and too lazy right now to go to the freezer . Forgive me. So instead of us disagreeing on what not to feed. Lets see if we can come up w/ what will work. I also have been feeding frozen brine shrip w/ spirulina algea, as well as sinking algea wafers for all my bottom feeders, Including the Raphael. Also trying various vegetables yellow or green squashes and green leafy veggies for my Pl*co. Would kale be too fiberous even cooked? Cause it is fairly cheap here even in Winter.

[racoll]

I really would not worry one jot about heavy metals in frozen foods. It is more than likely that the fishmeals used to make up dried fish food are riddled with environmentally persistent bioaccumulating endocrine disruptors like DDT, Dioxins, PCB, organochlorines etc. There is no escaping these chemicals, even in organic food, as they are incorporated in the food chain....

You are right Bas Pels. I had a look at some frozen food packets, and it no longer says "irradiated", but just germ free They definately used to say irradiated. Still won't stop me feeding with them though.

As far as feeding the raphael goes, I can't imagine he'll be interested in vegetables, but you could try. Stick to a variety of dried and frozen foods and he will live for 20 years! Mine is getting on for that old.

[SOBERKITTY]

Nope the veggies are only for the pl*co. But other then that all the other stuff is for the other critters. I'm so happy I have fish again. And now I know a lot more about catfish then I used too.