Tatia Perugiae - Feeding Suggestions

[Martin S]

OK, the three specimens I have appear to have settled in and spend most of the day in hiding on and under the bogwood in my tank. I find the shoal of Emperor tetras eat ravenously and nothing sems to be left by lights out, so try and feed after lights out, but all the tatias di is become active without really touching the food, and the tetras still act like it's day time and go at the food until they are all full to busting.
Any suggestions on what (and when) best to feed them to ensure they get a look in! I've tried tetra tabi-min tablets (broken in half) but again, the cories and emperors have a good go as they break down. I'm now starting to see the bulldog plec coming out to feed as well, but am just concerned that the tatias will start to get underfed, and obviously do not want to lose them. I've dropped a couple of small earthworms in at lights out and they have gone by the morning - way too big for the tetras and cories, so can only assume the tatia are finding them, but none of them seem overly rounded from the snack.
Thanks
Martin

[Richard B]

I think i've seen it somewhere in a thread on PC that after lights out, they can be fed freeze dried daphnia that they take from the waters surface - the other fish would not be able to consume this that easily.

Otherwise, any sinking pellet/foodstick after lights out should be ok - a hungry tatia will get it rather than go without! (Preferably have tank & room lights out for an hour or so, so the fish can settle before the food goes in)

[Marc van Arc]

Contrary to most other Auchenipterids T. perugiae hardly feeds from the bottom. So either food should float or stick to plants, wood etc. in which case they'll take it without hesitation. Frozen foods are prefered. That's my experience over the past few years.

[racoll]

What I do is drop a whole frozen cube of food (daphnia, white/black mosquito larvae & bloodworms are favourite) in the tank.

As Marc says, they feed from the surface, so they can grab bits off the floating cube.

The tetras are a problem, but you have to wait for them to go to sleep. I suggest adding a cube after several hours of complete darkness (no room lights).

It's hard to know that they do get any food, but they are far better adapted than the tetras to feed from the surface in pitch darkness.

[MatsP]

I've just updated the Cat-eLog to reflect the discussion here, and a bit more info on the breeding [although the Cat-eLog has a link already to the Shane's World article, it's not in the "breeding" section].

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Mats

[Martin S]

Thanks all - i didn't realise that they were surface feeders, so am glad I asked the question.
Will change the light's out to earlier so that I can get to feed them once they have settled into their nightly routine and still have enough time to watch them.

What I do is drop a whole frozen cube of food (daphnia, white/black mosquito larvae & bloodworms are favourite) in the tank.

Racoll - please don't take this as criticism, but when I worked in aquatic retail I always told my customers to not feed frozen food frozen, but to leave it in a small pot of tank water to defrost as it's not good for the fish. I guess if you've been doing it that way, it must work, but was just wondering what people think.
I may well try some freeze-dried food as I guess that will float longer until it takes on some water.
Thanks again
Martin

[MatsP]

What I do is drop a whole frozen cube of food (daphnia, white/black mosquito larvae & bloodworms are favourite) in the tank.

Racoll - please don't take this as criticism, but when I worked in aquatic retail I always told my customers to not feed frozen food frozen, but to leave it in a small pot of tank water to defrost as it's not good for the fish. I guess if you've been doing it that way, it must work, but was just wondering what people think.
I may well try some freeze-dried food as I guess that will float longer until it takes on some water.
Thanks again
Martin

Obviously, it would be bad to feed a cube of frozen food to a fish that can swallow the whole thing, because that may cause the fish problems - but fish that eat a little bit at a time, I would expect is fine with whole cubes of frozen food.

A side-effect of defrosting frozen food is that it spreads more in the tank - this can be good or bad depending on what fish you have in the tank - if you have "Big brutes mixed with shy fish", then spreading it is a good thing. In the case of the Tatia's in this thread it probably just means that the food falls to the bottom and doesn't get eaten (or not eaten quite as quickly).

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Mats

[bronzefry]

I used to have (3) Tatia perugiae. Now I have one. I moved him into my generic 75 gallon tank. He wedged himself into a large piece of planted driftwood. I didn't think I'd see him again. The other occupants of this tank include Corydoras aeneus, Corydoras paleatus, (1)L-147, (2)Pristella sp.(x-ray Tetras, about 6 years old), Otocinclus spp., and Endless, err...ummm Endler's Livebearers. For a while, I didn't see him at all. A few weeks ago, I was feeding some frozen bloodworms to the tank. He comes up out of the driftwood, takes some Endler's fry as an appetizer, and starts in with the bloodworms. All of the bloodworms. He keeps swimming in circles at the top of the tank with the cube of bloodworms. I'm worried. Is he going to choke? Then, I think of some of the nicknames of the genus: gulper, etc. I stop worrying. He rests in a plant for a few. Does a few more circles, taking more Endler's for dessert, and goes down to the driftwood. Who am I to argue with this? He won't do it for any other food. I had to feed the others brine shrimp.
Amanda

[Martin S]

Obviously, it would be bad to feed a cube of frozen food to a fish that can swallow the whole thing, because that may cause the fish problems - but fish that eat a little bit at a time, I would expect is fine with whole cubes of frozen food.

A side-effect of defrosting frozen food is that it spreads more in the tank - this can be good or bad depending on what fish you have in the tank - if you have "Big brutes mixed with shy fish", then spreading it is a good thing. In the case of the Tatia's in this thread it probably just means that the food falls to the bottom and doesn't get eaten (or not eaten quite as quickly).

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Mats

Yes - I hadn't looked at it that way
Agreed, and that's exactly what I am finding is happening - the bloodworm falls striaght to the bottom and is cleared up by the tetras and cories.
Thanks again
Martin

[racoll]

Martin, I have never noticed any problems, even with fish swallowing whole cubes, but as Mats pointed out, it is generally not a good idea in many cases because a few greedy fish will eat the lot, which in the case of the Tatia is exactly what we want!

[Martin S]

Martin, I have never noticed any problems, even with fish swallowing whole cubes, but as Mats pointed out, it is generally not a good idea in many cases because a few greedy fish will eat the lot, which in the case of the Tatia is exactly what we want!

OK, and thanks.
Maybe I'll try it and see what happens!
Thanks again for all the feedback and advice - much appreciated
Martin

[racoll]

He comes up out of the driftwood, takes some Endler's fry as an appetizer,

What a great idea, my Tatia would love that. Would endlers do okay in warm acid water?

[panaque]

I defrost the cubes of frozen food by putting it in a fine meshed net and hanging it in the tank. The advantage of this is that the Tatias can smell the food while it is defrosting and become active. Once they are all at the surface I release the food. Even with the room lights on the other fish don't stand much of a chance once the Tatias are ready at the surface. White mosquito larvae are good because they tend to float.

[apistomaster]

What I do is drop a whole frozen cube of food (daphnia, white/black mosquito larvae & bloodworms are favourite) in the tank.

As Marc says, they feed from the surface, so they can grab bits off the floating cube.

The tetras are a problem, but you have to wait for them to go to sleep. I suggest adding a cube after several hours of complete darkness (no room lights).

It's hard to know that they do get any food, but they are far better adapted than the tetras to feed from the surface in pitch darkness.

Tatia perugiae have obviously evolved into surface feeders. There are massive adult aquatic organisms that die during or after laying eggs on the water surface every night. Feeding frozen blood worms and frozen beef heart blends still frozen has been shown safe to me based on four decades of fish breeding.
They also feed well on FD blood worms and live mosquito larvae. They will eat live black worms as they leave their hides but are soon at the surface looking for their food. I know of no Genus of catfish as specialized at surface feeding than the Tatia.

[syno321]

After success spawning this delightful species for a couple of generations I can concur with the surface-feeding habits. I found that their favourite foods were, frozen bloodworms, frozen glassworms, FD bloodworms, whiteworms. They were not particular with their tastes and ate most anything offered, it just took a little more time for them to discover that the whiteworms and other sinking foods were on the bottom. (they were housed in a bare-bottom tank)

[Marc van Arc]

I know of no Genus of catfish as specialized at surface feeding than the Tatia.

Somewhat off topic, but besides several Auchenipteridae - including Tatia of course - the most surface bound feeder I've ever kept was

Helogenes

[bronzefry]

He comes up out of the driftwood, takes some Endler's fry as an appetizer,

What a great idea, my Tatia would love that. Would endlers do okay in warm acid water?

They seem to do well in any type of water:from tapwater with high chloramines to RO water with no additives. There's no difference to them. Sorry to get off topic, too, but I can't help thinking who their predator in nature must be for them to breed like this in any condition so voluminously. I started with just 3 last September. I just lost count at 200.

The Tatia male came up for the frozen daphnia cube, but he had a difficult time swallowing the whole thing. It came apart when he ripped at it. So, he went after more Endler's fry. It's as if I need to feed him first, wait for him to finish his really cool swimming excercises, and then feed the rest of the tank.
Amanda

[racoll]

Excellent, thanks!

[Marc van Arc]

I've just updated the Cat-eLog to reflect the discussion here

I do not agree with the statement that Auchenipterids are normally bottom feeders and that T. perugiae is the (only) exception to the rule (if I read the sentence in the data sheet correctly).
There are plenty of species in this family that are surface orientated. Even better, most Auchenipterids are capable of obtaining food from all water layers - even from the bottom.

[racoll]

his fish is unusual in the sense that it's a surface-feeder, rather than a bottom feeder, which is common in Auchenipterids. Suitable foods include frozen food, floating pellets.

Also, very pedantic of me, but auchenipterids should be all lower case.

Sorry Mats

[MatsP]

Ok, I've changed it to a much simpler sentence.

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Mats

[MatsP]

And it's just been "approved" by Jools. Comments welcome, as usual. [I don't even pretend that I know anything about this fish, I'm just trying to make it easier for people to find info on it].


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Mats

[Martin S]

And it's just been "approved" by Jools. Comments welcome, as usual. [I don't even pretend that I know anything about this fish, I'm just trying to make it easier for people to find info on it].


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Mats

[apistomaster]

I would give them more F.D. Blood worms if they seem to be missing their fair share of the frozen blood worms. They like it almost as well as they like frozen blood worms.

Hi Amanda,
I am impressed with your success. I never did get mine to breed and I had 20 adults for a long time. They had their own tank so competition for food was never an issue.
What I don't understand is why several of the posters have fish that eat frozen Daphnia. My fish love live Daphnia but have no use for frozen or f.d. Daphnia.

[bronzefry]

Larry,
Take my Endler's, please!
Amanda

[Martin S]

An update...
I decided to try an few new foods to see if I could tempt them more, so purchased a small bag of bloodworm pellets from eBay, which I thought they would relish, but it seems that nothing in the tank liked them , so won't be feeding them again! It does seem to be linked to the amount of time they are in darkness before feeding, as Saturday, after adding some new stock to the tank in the afternoon, I turned the lights out to give them a chance to settle in, and when I came up later, one of the tatis was cruising all over the tank, so I dropped in a frozen cube of bloodworm, and sat there to watch the active tatia take chunks from it - next morning him and one of the two girls were sitting in a plant with bulging bellies. Have tried all my LFS and none keep FD bloodworm!!! They don't seem bothered by Tetra tabimin either, so need to visit a few more fish shops and see if anyone does FD bloodworm!
Thanks again
Martin