P. pictus and S. multi owners, advice ideas?

[L number Banana]

Hi, my LFS has a new batch of these two in. I adore them both and have an empty 10 gal that could house either for a little while. Both species are about 1.5 inches right now.

I'm wondering which of these I should lean towards because I know I can't get both. The tank is small but would be temporary however I don't want to move them up to a bigger tank and have them all alone. I'm not big on species tanks (yet) .

What tankmates do people keep with these fish? Anything I should be aware of that's not on their info pages? I saw the recommended tankmates but I'm curious about other people's experiences.

Thanks and any info, stories, ideas would be welcome

[MatsP]

I haven't kept

Synodontis multipunctatus

, but I have kept

Pimelodus pictus

. P. pictus is a nice, active fish (although not nearly as hectic as a group in a small tank at the LFS). They do best in a group of at least 5. In my experience, they can be kept with most other fish, as long as they aren't small.

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

Thanks Mats,

Do you think 5 would be okay in a 10 gal (10" wide x 20 long x 12 high) for a little while?
My catfish choices are so limited here that I don't know if I'll see them again any time soon.

[Birger]

You may want to compare water conditions needed for each to what it is you have available, both are different in needs and one may be more suited to your water.

If there is a thought of having these fish breed in the future then the syno would be the better choice.
The pictus are quite likely a migratory fish and breeding has not been accomplished yet AFAIK.

The multies could very well be

Synodontis grandiops

same conditions though

That seems quite small for pictus and they could be more delicate at that size.

It is a tough choice to make as each species is nice to watch in the right conditions.
A group of grown pictus out for a cruise around the tank is a very nice sight though and that comes from someone partial to syno's.

Birger

[L number Banana]

Thanks Birger,
Maybe I hope that they are S. grandiops, they stay smaller than the multis I would definitely be posting a picture just to see what I bought. I'll take a look after this post to make sure I don't buy anything that looks like these but grows into a monsterfish!

I can make the conditions whatever the chosen fish needs because the tank is only for them until they're happy and healthy. I already have a softer water tank running with rainwater/bottled springwater and some tap for minerals etc (?) okay for pictus but my tap water is very hard and ph 7.4 on average so it would be okay for the synos, I think. My mineral content is so high in the tapwater that my heater in the softwater tank looks like it's encased in stone! Think that would be too much lime/calcium even for the synos? Or is there anyway to reduce that before it goes into the tank?

I have a test for kh and gh but I've decided that I don't know what I'm doing with regards to that little test because the readings from one day to the next are always so different...It's not expired, it's just me.

Don't really care if they breed but that's always a bonus just to watch the goings-on.

How long could I keep 5 of any of these three in a 10 gal or is it the super-clean water that's really a larger concern here with such a small starter tank? The 33 gal will be in the works just after the 7th of July (big show$$ ) but I can't cycle it fast enough whereas the 10 gal can just be hooked into the bigger tanks for now, hard or softwater.

Sorry for all the questions but thanks for the help!

[Birger]

My mineral content is so high in the tapwater that my heater in the softwater tank looks like it's encased in stone!

Lake Tanganyika is mineral rich.

How long could I keep 5 of any of these three in a 10 gal or is it the super-clean water that's really a larger concern here with such a small starter tank? The 33 gal will be in the works just after the 7th of July (big show$$ ) but I can't cycle it fast enough whereas the 10 gal can just be hooked into the bigger tanks for now, hard or softwater.

If they are that small it may do until the bigger is cycled....but 5 of either of these species would be tight as adults in a 33 unfortunately, a fifty (18 x 36) would be better, and visually the pictus would have more cruising room.

Birger

[Richard B]

Both are fine options for a group in a tank - they should both be ok for a while in the little tank. What water does the store have them in?

Personally i'd go for the synos - not that i'm biased but the other thing to consider is age of the fish - the synos will give you many more years than the pictus - the only thing is to ensure they are genuine & not hybrids - some hybrids are very similar to the real thing - a pic here will help us ID them.

Keep us posted on this as it could be a great thread to watch develop over time

[MatsP]

Personally i'd go for the synos - not that i'm biased

You, biased? Like we walk into Maidenhead Aquatics where they have two dozen Plecos and a bunch of other nice cats, and you spend most of the time looking at the three tanks with Synos in them ;) But at least we all KNOW where you stand!

--Mats

[Richard B]

Oo-er, looks like i'm busted!!!

Still, the longevity of the synos still has the edge for a neutral - anyone ?

[MatsP]

You know that I like Synos too - I even have a tank dedicated to a small group of them. I just happen to like OTHER catfish too.

(And I found it very interesting watching the S. petricola and spotting the difference of the S. lucipinnis in that tank in Farnham)

Synos are indeed long-lived and hardy, which is definitely an advantage.

Pimelodus pictus are perhaps a bit more active - but don't expect them to be as hyper as they are in the shops!

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

Just had a thought, has anyone kept M. thoracata with either of these? That would be a wild looking tank and they share some water temps, ph range is huge for the Hoplos. I have my 5 M. thoracata in neutral at about 22c and the temporary pictus/syno tank is cycling but empty and undecided wrt to ph etc. The hoplos swim at all levels and seem to like any and every food I give them. It looks like both the S. multi and P.pictus are more bottom swimmers?
Too small for both?

Birger:

5 of either of these species would be tight as adults in a 33 unfortunately, a fifty (18 x 36) would be better,

The 33 gals available here are 36L x 12D x 18H. Do you mean I should try to find a larger floor space, 18 deep by 36 long? May be doable if I bribe the better half to get out a saw for the stand. None of my present furniture would be trusted with a 50 gal
Also, my 33 was $45 CDN and the price skyrockets with size. The 40 gal tall was $60. The lower types may be priced better since they're 'not as showy'

Richard B:

What water does the store have them in?

It looks like it's all hooked up together aside from the brackish and marine
And I will definitely post for positive ID when I get pics. I've learned to nicely ask if I can bring fish back if it turns out to be something other than what the label reads Depending on my work sched over the next few days, I'll be posting pics shortly.

[Birger]

Do you mean I should try to find a larger floor space, 18 deep by 36 long?

Exactly...the floor space is all important, gives you more room to be able to add structures and plants and most catfish like to have someplace to retire to, if these areas overlap too much you end up with constant turf wars.The deeper it is front to back you can add all this and still leave an open cruising area along the front.

Birger

[L number Banana]

Pictures taken but unfortunately so were the S. multis so Pim Pictus wins
Here's some pics just to make sure before I buy any. How would three do if 5 might be a little cramped? They have five.
They look skinny but since my otos arrived, I'm think everything's too skinny!



Just for fun, here's what else I found. No a big fan of these but I think they're

Platydoras armatulus

?


And here's a very nice one that was labeled with two genera names ??? I think it's an Arius sp.??? Gets huge?



That's all for now, off to cut some wood for the tank. Am using old ash branches. Hope that's okay. They will be along the back and I'm going to try to keep as much open as I can. I'm guessing hiding places would be nice too? Prefer caves or rocks or caves made of rocks???
There's not much on the species page about furniture requirements. Maybe it's time for a new CotM? It's been over ten years.

Let me know if you think these are P.pictus (the top pics) and I'm not looking at something that will need that big German tank/pond!
Thanks

[Birger]

How would three do if 5 might be a little cramped? They have five.

It would be a good idea to get the five they are a social fish.....and those are pictus you have.
Give them something they can dash behind they will feel better, and a school of some kind of tetra (not too small) will bring them out more as well.
Pictus are notorious for bringing in ich so keep an eye on them but once they are settled in fairly simple to care for.

Birger

[L number Banana]

Thanks Birger! Glad you said that, five seems more like a small shoal
I'll be picking them up Monday with live treats to help them acclimatize. There may be issues with the ash hardwood (from another post) so I'll hold off on that and make safe places with just plants for now.

Does the substrate matter much for their barbels?

[Martin S]

Just for fun, here's what else I found. No a big fan of these but I think they're

Platydoras armatulus

?

Yep - spot on.

And here's a very nice one that was labeled with two genera names ??? I think it's an Arius sp.??? Gets huge?

And this one is almost definitely

Hexanematichthys seemanni

, so yes, get's big and needs to move up to a brackish setup as it grows, so definitely not a fish for your average home aquarium.
Martin

[Richard B]

Just for fun, here's what else I found. No a big fan of these but I think they're

Platydoras armatulus

?

Yep - spot on.
Martin

I don't think this is P. Armatulus - the lateral pale stripe seems far to narrow - another doradid of some sort? Another platydoras? O.eigenmanni?

[Martin S]

Just for fun, here's what else I found. No a big fan of these but I think they're

Platydoras armatulus

?

Yep - spot on.
Martin

I don't think this is P. Armatulus - the lateral pale stripe seems far to narrow - another doradid of some sort? Another platydoras? O.eigenmanni?

Good spot Richard - looking again, you could well be right

[L number Banana]

Hi all, On the bright side, I have a bit longer to set up the tank.
On the rather dim side, the store called on Sat and said they were QT-ing the pictus because of ick. If they make it through in healthy shape, they're still mine if not, I'll have to wait for a new shipment. Nice that they called.

Still can't decide on the wood. The store had ugly 'chunks' of it, nothing special. Kind of bummed right now so maybe my creativity is crushed too.

[Richard B]

creativity may be dormant for a bit awaiting inspiration! but not crushed surely?

have a search for some aquascapes in the forums or on-line in general to get the creative juices flowing & become inspired!!!

[L number Banana]

Thanks Richard, I needed that. Maybe it was just the FishGod's way of slowing me down.
A well thought out tank will be better than a rushed one. My twig tank is quickly being taken over by the giant red lily I put in so a bit more planning is a good thing.

A couple other good things happened yesterday. When I dropped my 'baby' Corys off at the small independant LFS, I hadn't realized how bright and colourful my C.paleatus are compared to the ones they already had. I guess I must be doing something right thanks to all the help I received here
That also means there's more room in that tank to try new Corys...

On the outdoor front, my pond fish had babies! I started to scoop out some hair algae and it was glittering. They're only common goldfish but nice to see they're in good shape. Most of them will probably be snacks but I put the breeder box in so at least a few of them will survive. Stuck a big lily leaf over the top so the herons don't see it as a takeout box!

I'm going to take the wait time to rock-hunt. There's on or two rocks in this city that aren't limestone so I'm off to find them. We have a pink granite quarry around here too. Any idea if granite is okay for tanks? Oo, pink and black punk-pictus tank..
Creativity is back!

[MatsP]

Granite is EXCELLENT rocks for aquariums - they are pH inert, and have a pleasant pattern (if you pick the right stones, at least).

Only problem with quarried stone is that it's often has sharp edges and/or doesn't look partiuclarly "natural". Of course, that's not to say that you can't find certain pieces that are to your liking.

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

MatsP wrote:

Only problem with quarried stone is that it's often has sharp edges and/or doesn't look partiuclarly "natural". Of course, that's not to say that you can't find certain pieces that are to your liking.

Thanks MatsP. I may be able to find some that aren't countertop grade slabs, maybe the broken chunks are available for sale. And if there are any 'too sharp' edges, I have a grinder for lapidary work.
I don't think this tank will be very natural looking, I may go for a kind of fun tank, think Haarvard Stoere on crack
Rocks, directed spot lighting, but black substrate and pink rocks. Maybe some clear stuff if I can find it. Life is too short not to go out on a limb once in a while.

[MatsP]

I think the black sand and pink rocks would work just great, and I was thinking that "if you get some sharp bits, you can always grind of the edges", but I wasn't quite sure if you'd appreciate that suggestion. Not everyone thinks that using an angle-grinder is a great idea! [I think it is, but some people say I'm a bit weird!]

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

MatsP wrote:

Not everyone thinks that using an angle-grinder is a great idea! [I think it is, but some people say I'm a bit weird!]

I have a girlie-type grinder, it's stationary and hooked up to a plain motor, so it's much easier to control and quieter (that's the girlie part). And a bit weird is good for the soul.

Got the rocks tonight but sadly underestimated how many I would need. They have lots more and it's 1/10 the price of a single piece of mopani so I can load up and not feel the slightest wallet pangs. For now it's somewhat Stonehenge-like. Looks a bit like a secret sacrifice alter or druid meeting place. The fish will have a place to hide in the center. Pics will follow after I rearrange it for the 64th time.

I also grabbed a piece of amethyst in matrix. Any ideas about the safety of that? It's a nice rock even if I can't put it in the tank.

[L number Banana]

Forget the amethyst. Here's my possible set-up for the rocks. There's an 'entrance' on the left between the tall rock and the next and a 'entrance' on the right between the tall rock and the glass. I think I'll only have to get rid of a few sharp bits, the rest will be buried or are part of the outside or are already rounded off.

Ignore the shoemaker filter (temporary). Also ignore the goldfish fry, also temporary for photographs Have to see what different a light or dark background will make to the pink of the rocks.
I was thinking of making a 'lid' to give the fish some darkness but the lights I plan to use are pretty dim compared to what's there now.
It's not supposed to look 'natural'. Any suggestions? Any and all options/opinions are welcome


With a dark paper behind:


I can get a lot more of this type of stone so I may do a stack at the filter end? There's no other tall pieces but plenty like the ones shown. Should I try a Haarvard Stoere 'glue it to the side' approach? There's lots of smaller pieces that are flat on one side and his directions are awesomely clear! Draining it for gluing is obviously not a problem at this point. The filter for this one is a hang on the back/side filter with only a pipe sticking down into the water.

[MatsP]

I quite like the colour of those rocks. I'm not sure what I would do, but I think something at least along the lines of Haavards designs - don't have to be glued to the back of the tank, but stacked up to form a wall [with caves/holds], rather than a circle.

In my experience, P. pictus like a bit of a cave to hide in, swim through. So if you get something that has a few bridges formed of larger rocks on top of smaller ones, you'd have something the pictus will like.

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

Thanks MatsP,

I think your idea may give them more swimming room up front too. I need to pick up some Corys tonight so I'll grab a few more stones and play with the wall idea.

Cheers!

[L number Banana]

Wow, is this rock piling ever difficult! Haarvard Stoere has magic hands I think.
I should be done next year...

[Birger]

Wow, is this rock piling ever difficult! Haarvard Stoere has magic hands I think.
I should be done next year...

I think Haavard attaches many by mechanical means(screws & glues)
Just remember you may have to tear it down occasionally for various reasons and if just stacking be certain they can not tip either from getting knocked by you or a fish or from fish digging sand out from under a stone.

Good luck and have fun with it.