OK, so what's the difference??

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 24 Nov 2009, 00:58

Ok, so what's the difference between L. marmoratus and L. longibarbis ? I just rescued two L. marmoratus about 20" or so each. They look as if they've been put into a blender.

I already have a L. longibarbis and according to the judges at the OCA extravaganza this past weekend it's indeed a longibarbus. I had a 125 in my hotel room and ended up putting all three cats together for a day or so (they really enjoyed each others company) and I was having difficulty seeing differences. Just wondering if there's any obvious ones... I guess it's possbile I might see a difference when the two heal up.... They're in a 125 being medicated right now...

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 24 Nov 2009, 11:12

Sorry, can't really help much, but according to the (rather confusing) "general remarks" in , the two were until 2003 considered the same speceis. They have since been split apart in to two separate species, but I don't know what the difference is.

We do not have a single picture of L. longibarbis, which in itself is an indication that it's not often identified correctly.

If anyone has a reference or know how to tell them apart somehow (preferrably keys that do not rely on internal features), it would be great to be able to update the Cat-eLog.

--
Mats

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 24 Nov 2009, 11:49

I read that too, hence the starting of this thread

Here's what info I have... The two L. marmoratus I rescued this weekend were originally one of our club members who's reliable and reputable. So I'm willing to go along with him (as I told him I rescued his cats) on the two being L. marmoratus.

Now last year when I entered my L. longibarbis in the show there was a short debate as to what exactly he was until one of the judges proclaimed it was indeed a L. longibarbis due to its broader head and the fact his snout does not come to a point if you will. ( he took first place last year!)

Of the two L. marmoratus one looks as if it has a "pointier" snout the other is so beat up I can't tell what it's nose looks like yet...

When they heal up I plan to put all three back together to attempt to see some differences... I will keep the site updated with my findings (If I should find any) on this thread

Incidently another one of my cats took first place this year but the L. longibarbis did not place

Redtailrob · Post by **Redtailrob** » 24 Nov 2009, 12:50

Hi Fishguy / all.
Thanks for your thread.

I too have a post on here regarding the clarification / identification of Mammoratus / Longbarbis.
I have kept what was discribed as both but am sure that they are one in the same fish, however your mentioning of the broader snout struck a cord as they fish i had previously was larger & not as broad across the snout as the fish i now have which was purchased as Longbarbis.

Just to muddy the water further most P.Perruno are nearly always Mammoratus/Longbarbis.
As that is also clearly what mine turned out to be.

Do you have pics of your specimen cats?
Rob

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 25 Nov 2009, 03:26

I just took over 100 pics to catolog their injuries so when I get a chance I'll post them. I'll find out if someone I know took a picture of the longibarbus at the show. At first guess atleast 25 people took pictures of him since he was one of the biggest fish in the show, the only thing bigger was my pleco, and a lot of people took pics of him too...

I'm sure the club photographer took some pics of him... He's back in the pond now so pics are out of the question...

Post by **Shane** » 25 Nov 2009, 13:34

I did some initial searching and this is not one I can get to the bottom of with the resources I have on hand. Burgess (1989) listed Leiarius marmoratus Gill, 1870 and L. pictus (Muller and Troscel, 1849) as valid. L. pictus is the type specimen for the genus, but there is no record of where the holotype came from. (This is where I'll add my own snide comment that if there is no documented holotype location the description should be declared invalid.) Since Burgess did not list L. longibarbis, (Castelnau, 1855) as a valid species , he must have considered it a junior synonym.

Fast forward to 2003 (Lundberg, J.G. and M.W. Littmann 2003 Pimelodidae (Long-whiskered catfishes). p. 432-446. In: R.E. Reis, S.O. Kullander and C.J. Ferraris, Jr. (eds.) Checklist of the Freshwater Fishes of South and Central America. Porto Alegre: EDIPUCRS, Brasil.) and Lundberg and Littman again consider L. longibarbus a valid species. The missing puzzle piece is whether they did so based on their own work or another's. It was again considered valid in 2006 by Eschmeyer (Catalog of Fishes).

It should be relatively easy to take a look at Lundberg and Littmann and see if they provide a reference for including L. longibaris. I do not have a copy of the Pimelodidae section on hand but I am sure Jools and HH (and probably others) do and could check.

-Shane

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 26 Nov 2009, 00:55

Ok, someone emailed me a picture of the longibarbus I had in the show:

Here's a few of the new rescues:

And here's the guy that brought home another blue ribbon for me, he's 12":

I should add that this guy came to us two years ago in worse condition than the two we just got. I had to hold him in front of a powerhead for a 1/2 hour to revive him... He had no fins or barbels.... Two years later he wins the blue ribbon!

OK, so what's the difference??

OK, so what's the difference??

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