breeding L 128

[leonsmith]

Hello all, well i would like to try and breed the blue phantom plec, i started to have a little read up but theres a few things i dont know. my little ones are about 4cm at the moment i have been buying 2 at a time and so far have 4 the idea is to have 6 to 8 of them, then hopefully will end up with males and females, what i need to know
What age or size can they be sexed?
When buying young ones is there anything to give you a chance of picking a male or fem?
At what age or size do they become sexualey active?
What is the right male to fem ratio to keep?
Has anyone on here had a go or have been sucessful at breeding these?
Any help or advice would be great thanks

[2wheelsx2]

I think in a discussion on breeding L200, MatsP indicated that L128 are not sexable until about 13- 15 cm, so you have a ways to go. This is an interesting topic for me, as I have a group of 5 with the biggest one being about 12 cm and there are no signs of a male, so either I have all females or they are not quite mature yet.

[leonsmith]

Oh okey sounds like i have a way to go then, how old are yours?

[2wheelsx2]

I'm not sure of the age, as mine were wild caught at those sizes. I've had them for about 2 months. They seem much easier to keep at that size. I had 3 small ones at 4 cm previously and lost 2 right away and lost the last one after 2 months.

[Richard B]

Hello all, well i would like to try and breed the blue phantom plec, i started to have a little read up but theres a few things i dont know. my little ones are about 4cm at the moment i have been buying 2 at a time and so far have 4 the idea is to have 6 to 8 of them, then hopefully will end up with males and females, what i need to know
What age or size can they be sexed? approx 14 cm upwards
When buying young ones is there anything to give you a chance of picking a male or fem? not really at the size you indicate - you might wanna buy the 2 biggest & the 2 smallest from the same batch but at that size it's probably hit & miss
At what age or size do they become sexualey active?approx 14 cm upwards
What is the right male to fem ratio to keep? unsure - the trick is to get a colony with definate individuals of both rather than get a definate 1:1 or 2:1 ratio & ensure there isplenty of space & plenty of cave options for them - more caves than individuals

Has anyone on here had a go or have been sucessful at breeding these? Several people including Haavard have been succesful with L200 & these should be similar, Mats has a group on the go as do many others
Any help or advice would be great thanks

[MatsP]

The growth rate is hard to judge for any fish, because it depends on so many factors, but 2.5-4 cm/1-1.5" per year is probably achievable for younger

Hemiancistrus sp(L128)

or

Hemiancistrus subviridis

(they are pretty similar, if they aren't the same species).

Judging the age of fishes when they are bought is almost impossible - We can have a guess that a 4cm fish is probably about a year old, a 8-10cm fish is two years old, and a 12-15cm fish is probably 3-4 years old. But that is a completely unsubstantiated guess on my part - and more importantly, if they fish is nearly fully grown, there is no way to tell how old it is, as once fish reach a certain size, they spend less time eating and more time trying to mate, and they are genetically programmed to not grow much more at that stage either, but fish DO grow their entire life. #

If the fish are known to be from the same brood, then the bigger ones are PROBABLY male. But that's a pretty poor judging factor in a shop, as you have no idea if they were even collected in the same location [probably], and you may end up buying some from the brood that was born a few weeks earlier, and some from the later brood - in which case who knows what happens. You have to rely on statistics to get it right here.

If you don't mind me asking, how much are you paying for these? I've seen some tiny L128 that were completely silly price compared to big ones - I've seen large L200 and L128 in MA branches at around £70 each, and they are definitely sexable - it is obviously a better choice to buy three of these than 8 unknown sex ones at just under 30 quid each and not know what you get - you COULD end up with 8 males - and you will have spent some £50 or so feeding them for the two years until they are sexable. And Pier Aquatics are usually a lot less expensive - and if you want a group of these fish, it's best to buy them all from one shipment, so you don't end up with a mix of fish from different locations.

Haavard wrote a thread on breeding L200 some time ago (actual title, I think is "Breeding Hemiancistrus subviridis").

Oh, and I moved this topic to the "correct" forum.

--
Mats

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Maybe this could help... but even with references like this, I still think this is a difficult species to sex, unless they are adult.



http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/ ... 260219.jpg

I may be wrong, but to me, it seemes that L128 becomaes sexual mature at a bigger size than L200s...

[MatsP]

Christoffer, do you mind sending that picture for inclusion in the Cat-eLog?

--
Mats

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Not at all!
I wish to contribute to PC as much as possible with images and information!

Where do you whant me to sent the image?

Cristoffer

[MatsP]

Ah, yes, that would help, wouldn't it... mats at planetcatfish dot com with a copy to webmaster at same place.

--
Mats

[leonsmith]

Thanks for the advice guys, been really helpful. i have been paying 45 pound each for them. thinking bout it should have got mature ones. all a learning curve i suppose. sorry that i put in wrong topic

[MatsP]

Having said that, I haven't seen many sets of male and female large ones around here, and the ones I'm thinking of over at St. Albans are L200.

But last time I was at Piere, I think the L128's were about 40 quid each for "medium" size ones - should be sexable at least if Neil helps out.

--
Mats

[Janne]

Judging the age of fishes when they are bought is almost impossible - We can have a guess that a 4cm fish is probably about a year old, a 8-10cm fish is two years old, and a 12-15cm fish is probably 3-4 years old. But that is a completely unsubstantiated guess on my part - and more importantly, if they fish is nearly fully grown, there is no way to tell how old it is, as once fish reach a certain size, they spend less time eating and more time trying to mate, and they are genetically programmed to not grow much more at that stage either, but fish DO grow their entire life. #

We often think that a fish grows faster in captivity but it's totally the opposite, a fish grows much faster in nature in their right and correct habitat. I would estimate a 4 cm "pleco" to be between 3-6 months depending on species, 8-10 cm ~12 months and 12-15 cm 1,5-3 year maximum depending on species. They do grow their whole life but first they grow longer and then they grow broader. I may not be exactly correct but I do beleive this is much closer to the truth and can be good to know.

Janne

[MatsP]

You obviously have much more experience than I have, so I'll take your word for that. And yes, it makes a lot of sense that the fish are growing quicker in nature.

So what you are saying is that fish when they are "breeding size", they are around 2-3 years old [for this sort of species].

--
Mats

[MatsP]

Thanks to Christoffer, I have added four new pictures of

Hemiancistrus sp(L128)

that show male and female with reasonable detail.

--
Mats

[Janne]

So what you are saying is that fish when they are "breeding size", they are around 2-3 years old [for this sort of species].

Yes, they would be mature at that age. They grow quite fast to reach maturity and then they slow down in growth in nature, in the aquarium I would think you can add 1-2 years depending how good condition they are giving... let say it take 3-4 years from 4 cm to reach 13-14 cm for L128 in captivity.

Janne

[Richard B]

I don't know how much they were but sweet knowle aquatics had a gigantic pair recently - quite stunning

[leonsmith]

Really where they for sale? where abouts is that shop?

[MatsP]

http://www.sweetknowleaquatics.co.uk/

--
Mats

[leonsmith]

Thanks for the link mats have just spoke to them have one def male 12-14cm, another large male they are keeping and the rest unknown are 75 each. He is going to send me pics of the male thats for sale.