(oops just realised I posted in wrong section)
Seeking help and any information or feedback on breeding Royal panaque (Panaque nigrolineatus). I have managed to find some 25cm specimens which is quite a feat here in Australia and intending to hormone induce spawn since they are not readily available here. Would like to hear from anyone who has successfully or unsuccessfully tried to breed these fish.
I have already managed to breed Hypostomus multiradiatus (common plecs), Pterygoplichthys gibbiceps (sailfin plecs) and Glyptoperichthys joselimaianus (L001) via hormone induced spawns and 10,000 litre earthern ponds. Seeking any assistance before just blindly experimenting. Please email me at aquaholic99@hotmail.com
Thanks in advance
Seeking help and information on breeding royal panaques
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aquaholic
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Thanks for the well thought out response Magnum.
I am not sure if it's even worth responding but why don't you just keep ignoring how many thousands of Plecos they rip out of the wild. Thats on top of the ones we lose from loss of habbitat. I'd tell you what the appalling survival rate of wild caught fish is but I don't think you'd even care.
I am not sure if it's even worth responding but why don't you just keep ignoring how many thousands of Plecos they rip out of the wild. Thats on top of the ones we lose from loss of habbitat. I'd tell you what the appalling survival rate of wild caught fish is but I don't think you'd even care.
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doctorzeb
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CHILL!
I must admit I don't agree wit hormone induced spawning, but then again I feel guilty as hell when I think how many of my fish have been plucked from there natural environment. Yet the obsession continues!
I'm sure I seen a post somewhere about breeding royal's but i can't seem to find it, I'll keep looking. Aquaholic, I take it isn't practical for you to try and let nature take it's course with the correct conditions etc.?
cheers
rob
I must admit I don't agree wit hormone induced spawning, but then again I feel guilty as hell when I think how many of my fish have been plucked from there natural environment. Yet the obsession continues!
I'm sure I seen a post somewhere about breeding royal's but i can't seem to find it, I'll keep looking. Aquaholic, I take it isn't practical for you to try and let nature take it's course with the correct conditions etc.?
cheers
rob
My wife made the mistake of buying me a 2 ft tank and it grew to 7ft.
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Dinyar
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Magnum, DrZeb,
I have ranted against hormone induced spawning many times in these forums. However, hormone induced spawning is just a means, and whether it is justifiable or not depends in large part on the ends. If the end is artificial hybridization, then it's an abhorrent practice; if on the other hand, the end is species conservation, then it's a laudable one.
Dinyar
I have ranted against hormone induced spawning many times in these forums. However, hormone induced spawning is just a means, and whether it is justifiable or not depends in large part on the ends. If the end is artificial hybridization, then it's an abhorrent practice; if on the other hand, the end is species conservation, then it's a laudable one.
Dinyar
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doctorzeb
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Dinyar
Definately a fair point. It is all to easy for us to have uninformed opinions on thing we know little about. As you say, it depends on the desired outcome. I still feel however that if it is possible to do the same (with a little more work), without artificial intervention then all the better.
cheers
rob
Definately a fair point. It is all to easy for us to have uninformed opinions on thing we know little about. As you say, it depends on the desired outcome. I still feel however that if it is possible to do the same (with a little more work), without artificial intervention then all the better.
cheers
rob
My wife made the mistake of buying me a 2 ft tank and it grew to 7ft.
aquaholic i am quite aware of the death rate as i have imported quite a few. Question do you release yours back into the wild?
The reason i put my view so bluntly was that your question had been read many times, yet with no reply, and as i'm new to this forum i wanted to know how the others felt about this issue. my real personal view is that, people home breeding large quantities of fish will not change the amount taken from wild, given the amount of people i meet who ask for wild stock, However if there is money to be made in this way i would prefer if it went to the local community around the collection points around the world as they need it and you don't. oh and ive thought of another question are you trained to inject plecos.
The reason i put my view so bluntly was that your question had been read many times, yet with no reply, and as i'm new to this forum i wanted to know how the others felt about this issue. my real personal view is that, people home breeding large quantities of fish will not change the amount taken from wild, given the amount of people i meet who ask for wild stock, However if there is money to be made in this way i would prefer if it went to the local community around the collection points around the world as they need it and you don't. oh and ive thought of another question are you trained to inject plecos.
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Barbie
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I've been watching this thread, hoping that there wouldn't be need for me to step in. I guess I'm not going to get quite so lucky.
Aquaholic is in Australia, in case you missed that in the profile, where its extremely difficult to get your hands on different types of plecos. I personally think that hormone induced spawning methods are far from ideal, but it would at least increase the number of people that are able to afford them there.
Justifying the fact that people collecting these fish in the wild need the money, is really just silly. They get paid VERY minimal amounts for thousands of fish, not individuals, and I honestly doubt that one persons life efforts could result in more than a weeks worth of collection for some of these species.
The fact that the fish will need to be injected is no less humane than the people that buy the fish from stores with too little information and take them home to live with their 14 guppies, 6 cories and 2 pictus cats in a 10 gallon aquarium that isn't cycled yet. The difference being, that aquaholic would be out an investment that wouldn't be easy to replace should the procedure be handled improperly.
It's very easy to just judge and decide that there is only black or white, but much more difficult to recognize that there really are some gray areas, where pros and cons need to be balanced for the good of the fishkeeping community, and the species itself. There are quite a few pros AND cons to this argument, but please, lets keep it informative and not resort to insults or flames. The board is much too great of a resource to do that to it, IMO.
Barbie
Aquaholic is in Australia, in case you missed that in the profile, where its extremely difficult to get your hands on different types of plecos. I personally think that hormone induced spawning methods are far from ideal, but it would at least increase the number of people that are able to afford them there.
Justifying the fact that people collecting these fish in the wild need the money, is really just silly. They get paid VERY minimal amounts for thousands of fish, not individuals, and I honestly doubt that one persons life efforts could result in more than a weeks worth of collection for some of these species.
The fact that the fish will need to be injected is no less humane than the people that buy the fish from stores with too little information and take them home to live with their 14 guppies, 6 cories and 2 pictus cats in a 10 gallon aquarium that isn't cycled yet. The difference being, that aquaholic would be out an investment that wouldn't be easy to replace should the procedure be handled improperly.
It's very easy to just judge and decide that there is only black or white, but much more difficult to recognize that there really are some gray areas, where pros and cons need to be balanced for the good of the fishkeeping community, and the species itself. There are quite a few pros AND cons to this argument, but please, lets keep it informative and not resort to insults or flames. The board is much too great of a resource to do that to it, IMO.
Barbie
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aquaholic
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Thanks for all the responses so far,
Barbie- I also agree this shouldn't get into a flaming match. That would be unproductive and I have no intention of trying to change anyones opinions. People should also realise that hormone induced spawning doesn't automatically mean artificial hybrids unless someone is deliberately intending to. (blame the person not the methedology)
Magnum,
Lots of people import wild caught fish where you are from. That doesn't mean you know how many are lost at each step before they get through to the importers selling stage. And of course I do not release back into the wild. Even if I were able to, that is a certain recipe for natural hybrids and loss of natural gene pools. Lets just agree to disagree. If we ever meet, I'll buy you a beer and you can tell me how evil I am.
To answer some of your well intended queries: Royal panaques cost over AUD$1000 each for 5cm juveniles. However it's not the price people complain about, it's the availability. I had to wait for years before some juveniles were even available. I am sure you've heard all this before but I doubt you've experienced it. Sailfin Plecos and normal plecos are only just becoming widely available here with not a single one taken from the wild!! L001's with their extremely narrow burrow openings mean they are still quite hard to produce and remain rarer.
Whilst not many people have responded to me publicly, posting here has allowed several very well informed people to contact me privately. For this I thank you and I have already told Shane what a good forum/resource PlanetCatfish is.
Winston
Barbie- I also agree this shouldn't get into a flaming match. That would be unproductive and I have no intention of trying to change anyones opinions. People should also realise that hormone induced spawning doesn't automatically mean artificial hybrids unless someone is deliberately intending to. (blame the person not the methedology)
Magnum,
Lots of people import wild caught fish where you are from. That doesn't mean you know how many are lost at each step before they get through to the importers selling stage. And of course I do not release back into the wild. Even if I were able to, that is a certain recipe for natural hybrids and loss of natural gene pools. Lets just agree to disagree. If we ever meet, I'll buy you a beer and you can tell me how evil I am.
To answer some of your well intended queries: Royal panaques cost over AUD$1000 each for 5cm juveniles. However it's not the price people complain about, it's the availability. I had to wait for years before some juveniles were even available. I am sure you've heard all this before but I doubt you've experienced it. Sailfin Plecos and normal plecos are only just becoming widely available here with not a single one taken from the wild!! L001's with their extremely narrow burrow openings mean they are still quite hard to produce and remain rarer.
Whilst not many people have responded to me publicly, posting here has allowed several very well informed people to contact me privately. For this I thank you and I have already told Shane what a good forum/resource PlanetCatfish is.
Winston
Ok it all just got complicated, I didn't know that was the going price in aus, but i'm now never living there. infact you can fly over to the uk buy me that beer and i'll import you a few they only cost £12. I just really dont like hormone injection. would it not just be possible to breed them naturally. panaque nigrolineatus and what i can remember from a breeding report. a very large tank was used something like a 270gall (uk) the water was left for 6 months without a water change so that the pH had droped from 7 to 6.4. then more filtration was added, so water flow was increased, and large quantities of water was changed every day for a week (possibly colder i dont think it mentioned that bit) hence RSE, they breed a couple of days later. the thing i did remember well was what they breed in it's difficult to explain: it started with a 4" diameter section of drain pipe siliconed into a 6-8" section and then into that big blue pipe you see workmen puting in the ground it was about 10-12" i think it was designed to stop cichlids of some sort harrassing them, oscars i think. I think it was an accident but still its do-able
its true lots of people import in the uk I import for shops, friends and clubs however if it came across that i new the world percentage death rate i'm sorry i just ment it as i have a fair idea. Infact can anyone say they do?
barbie its true they get paid not a lot but they still do it thats what makes me think.
its true lots of people import in the uk I import for shops, friends and clubs however if it came across that i new the world percentage death rate i'm sorry i just ment it as i have a fair idea. Infact can anyone say they do?
barbie its true they get paid not a lot but they still do it thats what makes me think.