What do we know about female Panaque?

[jac]

What do we really know about the odonthode growth on female Panaque/Panaqolus?
After reading an other tread about large Panaque's and their body odonthodes I started wondering.

Here is a picture of my breeding group (3f, 2m) of wc older aldult L397. Both male and female have odonthode growth:

[Jools]

They can't be Panaqolus, the descriptions mentions only males grow ondotodes.

Jools

[jac]

Please explain. What can't be Panaqolus?

And in this tread, http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =5&t=35838, there was some discussion about odonthodes on females.

[Jools]

Please explain. What can't be Panaqolus?

I'm doing this from memory, so it may well be inaccurate, but I thought that a characteristic of Panaqolus (from the DATZ description) was that the males developed body odontodes. Maybe it said males and females, I am not certain.

Jools

[jac]

Does that also count for Panaque as well? L397 is listed as Panaque sp.

I always believed female Panaque to be smooth. But when I got this group my insight in that changed. Also my female L204 has developed some odonthodes and she is also an old fish and female for sure.
There is no picture evidence of older females. I can't find any... That's why I wantend to hear from you guys here.

My L397 look to be gravid.

[Jools]

Panaque(Panaque) are smooth, Panaque(Panaqolus) are not. The catelog doesn't currently recognise Panaqolus.

Jools

[jac]

Ok. So if I understand correctly, it is possible to see female Panaque (Panaqolus) with odonthode growth?
Or is there just to little information from breeders to say otherwise?

The group came from a breeder in Germany and as far as I'm told this group has spawned. The supposed females are indeed very gravid and display all the signs of a female carrying eggs. Including the enlarged and 'u' shaped vent. The 2 males have a typical 'V' shaped body and smal 'v' shaped vent.
There is some fighting going on in the group. I haven't had them that long yet and they aren't in very great shape for a breeding attempt right now. I also think they are quite old, maybe more then 10 years old as I know the previous 2 owners.

Is there no one else here that is breeding this Panaque? I have read some spawning reports. Please share some information

Thank you Jools so far!

[HaakonH]

Odontodal growth varies from species to species. Not every species of Panaque (Panaqolus) is exactly as spiny as the next one. The same goes for i.e. Hypancistrus species; some species are more spiny than others. In the more spiny species, even the females may show some odontodal growth. I believe yours are a good example of this.

Haakon

[Simon86]

In my breeding group of L204 the 4 males had many odontodes like those on your picture and the 3 females really had none. Differences in my group are easy to see and even easier to feel by hand if I take them out!
My L204 had been imported like 7 years ago and are all about 12-14cm without filaments.
But seen others like L397 where both male and females had odontodes.

Cheers Simon

[jac]

Here is a picture of my pair of L204 from about 2,5 years ago. These fish are at least 15cm TL, without the filaments of course.
This female has now developed some small odonthodes in the last years but is heavy gravid. Sadly the male died some months ago... They did share a cave several times but never actually spawned.
Most obvious difference is the size or length of the pectorial finray, and the odonthode growth.



Male


Female