non Catfish - Loach question

[JamesFish]

Hi All,

Had a yoyo loach for over a year been fine with all tank mates. Spent 6 months in with a clown loach no issues until they started to bicker a little at feeding time. Yoyo lost the argument several times and everything settled. Clown loach lost it about a week ago and appeared with a big red mark and run from the yoyo loach. No prizes for guessing who must have given the mark.

Assumed it was due to being close size and settling score for dominant fish. Moved the yoyo to my other tank where it was far the biggest fish and had nothing to compete with. Hoped he would settle and lay in a corner like he used to in cave or over a plant and move around at feeding time. Killed 2 guppies and chased everything in sight to the point he's had to go in his own tank.

Spoke to a friend who had a smaller one and its been fine for months it recently pinned its clown loach to the floor and nearly killed it. No reason for this as nothing was moved or changed. Is it breeding season for them or are they known to go a bit crazy at set times of the year? He / she (Possibly an over weight male due to red markings round mouth) is not yet an adult as hasn't fully coloured in and is about 3-4 inches in size.

[Marc van Arc]

You have 2 specimens of different species. Both species should be kept in a group, preferably of their own kind. What you get atm are 2 frustrated fishes, that can only get rid of their "agression" by annoying and harassing each other (and very likely other fishes as well).
Btw: the same would go for a scenerio with only 2 specimens of the same species - and that doesn't only go for loaches.

[Bas Pels]

the 2 loaches are enough similar to rais agression against each other, but not enough to see each other as something to school with.

That being said, exchanging one of the loaches for one of the other species will not do. Than you have 2 fishes which annoy each other largely, but the group is just far too small.

Keeping 2 loaches is a very bad idea - you should keep them with 6 or more. This number will start them schooling, that is, reduce agression, but also - any agression left will be distributed over not 1 fish, but 5 - or more - resulting in an acceptable level.

[N0body Of The Goat]

The loach-loach and loach-non loach aggression is nothing unexpected, these fish naturally form complex hierachies with their own kind to determine some sort of "pecking order." If there are not enough of their own kind (ideally 10+), then other fish in the community will often become victims of the loaches trying to exhibit dominance, sadly this aggression in your case was too much for the Guppies.

Even Yoyo Loaches deserve a good volume (~240l) 4-footer and Clown Loaches deserve something at least 50% bigger long term, in the right setup (lots of current and some appropriate dithers) these are both active species.

[JamesFish]

Hi All,

Thanks all for replying. The clown has never given any problems he sits largely in an artificial root and comes out at feeding time or to zip round the tank. For now he seems happy so will leave him be getting him out wont be easy.

The yoyo I think will be heading back to the shop which is a shame as he's always active. Don't have a big enough tank to do a large group although I can imagine they would be great fun to watch. Next time I need to ask more careful questions in shops as was told he would be fine alone.

[Richard B]

Some stores info is sooo outdated it scares me

[N0body Of The Goat]

Hi All,

Thanks all for replying. The clown has never given any problems he sits largely in an artificial root and comes out at feeding time or to zip round the tank. For now he seems happy so will leave him be getting him out wont be easy.

The yoyo I think will be heading back to the shop which is a shame as he's always active. Don't have a big enough tank to do a large group although I can imagine they would be great fun to watch. Next time I need to ask more careful questions in shops as was told he would be fine alone.

How big is your tank?

Are you aware Clown Loaches reach in excess of 30cm in the hobby? Google "Marge the Clown Loach" for an eye-opener. ;)

It sounds like really you need to consider rehoming both the loaches from what you have written so far, because at the very least they should be kept in 6+ groups and because of their adult size/activity level.

In a suitable community (nothing too sedatory that spends time near the tank floor), Dwarf Chain Loaches are good loaches for tanks at least 75cm long, I have six in one of my 120cm tanks and will be picking up another 6-8 in the coming weeks.

[JamesFish]

Hello,

The Yoyo I wasn't aware of the size of when purchased and only looked up when started to cause issues, bad advice and I trusted the shop I was using at the time. Clown still has room to grow and hasn't caused an issue yet so he's going to need friends and a bigger tank later on no doubt. I hope to have the size tank required when that comes or yes sadly he will be heading back to a fish shop. Sorry I never purchased him he came with a used tank along with some other fish. No idea how old he is or how long his has been in the tank but feeds happily and is active early mornings and later in the evening. I've avoided purchasing more in case I don't get the larger tank in time.

Have a solo chain loach who seems to be doing fine. Healthy belly and am planning to slowly add to them when possible. They don't appear to be stocked very often in shop I use and are £10 each. Prices probably vary between places. I bought as a dwarf pygmy loach but from looks of images coming up are same. This was a recommend loach by my favourite shop as they give honest answers and put the fish max size on the tank. Great time saver for looking up a fish you have no hope of keeping. Not an effective snail eater but possibly asking a bit much of him on that front.

Hard learning curve picking up 15-20 fish you don't know about and trying to adjust to suit everyone + adding your own. Most have headed to other keepers or local fish shops but some I have kept. Lesson learned is never buy a tank with fish in unless they are the fish you really wanted.

Next tank I buy I am hoping for a 5-6ft tank so should have the room they need. Recently picked up an old encyclopedia of tropical fish by Dr Herbert r Axelrod published before I was born in 1981 but should provide some good ideas for suitable fish.

[Richard B]

There are some excellent sites online which can give more up to date info than the book by Axelrod -loaches online is great if that's your thing

Or if there is something you fancy post here in speakeasy & get advice & people often say where they've seen them & for how much