Mystery Pseudacanthicus - LDA07?

[DHarris]

Recently one of my local shops got in a small batch of what they're calling L114.
I've had an L114 in the past and this isn't the same fish. There were three in the store, all a bit different but I bought one that was particularly different in color and markings. I'm hopeful one of the experts here can shed some light on what I bought.

Here is the new fish in the bag:

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A couple in the tank:

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I've had an L114 in the past. When young it had a full orange tail. Spots developed on the outer edge then spread inward and filled all but the top and bottom of the tail. That fish was generally brown with large spots covering it's body.

I also have an L600. It's now about 6", has almost a full orange tail but a blotch of darkness/spots bleeding into it from the base (opposite of L114). It also has virtually no spots on it's head and is considerably bulkier than most of my other pseudas.

The other two fish for sale with the new one were a bit greyer in color and had generally uniform spotting but smaller spots on the head. They also have small spots on the tail which seem to originate from the base. I was thinking they were LDA07 but am thrown off by mine. In person the fish's color is almost L273-ish with a bit of a yellow/orange iridescence.

I'm definitely confused by this one!

[SLIMESLAYER10]

isn't LDA07 the same as L114? L114's "common names" screw with me haha

edit: i dont think its L273 as the pattern doesn't change on its head

[DHarris]

I've read that LDA07 is L144 but have also read that it's L600. Don't know the reality.
From what I've seen, the LDA07 looks more like the L600 but usually has a bit of a grey base where the L600 is more green. I don't know if thats a coincidence from fish to fish or a defining factor.

I wasn't suggesting this is an L273 - it's not. Was just trying to describe the coloration.

As a point of reference here is my L600(I think):

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For some reason I can't get any picture of my old L114 to attache here. I've pulled one from this site that is pretty close to how my old fish looked:

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I don't think the new one is either of these...

[SLIMESLAYER10]

the only thing i can think it would be is a L114 with a odd pattern.

[DHarris]

the only thing i can think it would be is a L114 with a odd pattern.

While I suppose you could be correct, the tail markings/pattern here is quite different that what I'm used to seeing on most every L114 I've encountered in person. The two other fish that were in with this one were, though not as oddly marked, still unlike traditional L114s.

I guess my next question would be if this is in fact an L114, how much variation can wild specimens show? I'm aware that there are variation from different collection points but I don't know the differences that each one presents.

Does anyone have pictures of different L114 from confirmed collection points? I'd love to see the variations.

[PseudaSmart]

I saw your post a few days ago but wanted to dig out some photos first. Did not happen soo,

Answering easy question first. With input from people who are involved with collecting of P. leopardus I have documentation for 5 stable patterns from 5 different rivers. With time this number will grow.

I have kept and seen the mixed pattern similar to yours.
Because of the annual flooding there is very little species isolation which is essential for pattern stability. I have had only one pair that looked identical where more than 70% of the offspring looked like their parents. Charlie Mueller has a hand picked matching pair of these F1s. It will be interesting to see how stable the F2s turn out.

The LDA07 being equal to L144 might be partly my fault. If you look up LDA007 and not LDA07 the conflict is resolved. Shorthand I guess.

Last question; are they all the same? Are you a lumper or a splitter? Other than pattern they are physically the same (flatter or thicker is based on diet, a red herring so to speak.) DNA results show they are the same.

Hope this helps a little.
Jim

[DHarris]

Jim, this is very interesting. I appreciate your input.

I'd always assumed, I guess incorrectly, that each variation would one day be described as a different species. I suppose I'm a splitter.
I've read the posts in the past about testing the DNA but never saw anything as to the result. I'm surprised to hear that they're all the same. Did this include the L600?
If you were to compare the DNA of L114 vs L24 or L273 for instance, would they be different or are these again cosmetic variations? Sorry if that's a silly question.

If you are able to find your pictures of the L114 from different collection points, would love to see them.

It's also interesting that you mention flooding causing the location specific variants to be able to mix.
Based on what you've seen, would your opinion of the fish I posted be that it's a hybrid or is it similar to one of the stable patterns that you've owned.

Thanks again for chiming in, this is fascinating!