L-134 tank setup (how many caves to use)

[pointpleco]

Hi,

Does this look like a good setup in my 130L 3ft tank for 3 pairs of L-134's. I read online that Putting 1 cave at a time to let a dominant males choose his first then add one by one is a good way. Or also just put 3 at once. Someone said that using too many can be not ideal because females may hide in them and then the males won't trap them in their own caves.

In my tank i have 12 with many different sizes and shapes. I thought this way would be good and then let them choose a cave. So far there is 3 in caves, i read that then i can also take out the extra ones.

What is peoples opinions on this or what has worked well for you.

Thanks Macrae

[pointpleco]

I'm running 2x 400l/hr internal filters and 2 air powered sponge filters. 300w heater and a aqua one 3ft plantglo LED. And plenty of driftwood as you can see, giving them alot of hiding places.

[Jobro]

My oppinion is, that you should always start out with at least as many caves as plecos. Usually 1.5-2 caves per pleco. (6 plecos = 9-12 caves)

It is a false believe, that females would not like to have their own caves. So don't remove too many of the left over caves. When females feel comfortable in your setup, they are very likely to claim a cave of their own.

If you think pleco males will somehow maliciously "trap" the female in his cave and force her to spawn, you are greatly mistaken. It is a very tender act between the two participants with many species, including L134. Watch my L134 spawning video on the other thread.

The female will go to the males cave if she wants to spawn. In fact it is usually the male that denies the female to enter his cave and not the male trying to lure or trap the female in his cave. Most of the time, females will be gravid and wanting to enter a males cave, while the male might not feel up to it.

So no, removing the females cave will not get higher chances of spawns. I would think the opposite. Though, I don't have any statistics to prove any of this, it's my experience that led me to these conclusions.

[pointpleco]

My oppinion is, that you should always start out with at least as many caves as plecos. Usually 1.5-2 caves per pleco. (6 plecos = 9-12 caves)

It is a false believe, that females would not like to have their own caves. So don't remove too many of the left over caves. When females feel comfortable in your setup, they are very likely to claim a cave of their own.

If you think pleco males will somehow maliciously "trap" the female in his cave and force her to spawn, you are greatly mistaken. It is a very tender act between the two participants with many species, including L134. Watch my L134 spawning video on the other thread.

The female will go to the males cave if she wants to spawn. In fact it is usually the male that denies the female to enter his cave and not the male trying to lure or trap the female in his cave. Most of the time, females will be gravid and wanting to enter a males cave, while the male might not feel up to it.

So no, removing the females cave will not get higher chances of spawns. I would think the opposite. Though, I don't have any statistics to prove any of this, it's my experience that led me to these conclusions.

Some good info there, and it's what i wanted to hear. Because i didn't really want to have to get all the caves out and change anything. Just want them to settle in for now. So i think my 12 caves is a good number. I have seen 4 fish in caves, so at least 1 female has found one.

Also i like the setup i have made, it's looking nice with many caves and hiding spots. So when they are settled and ready i hope they spawn. The guy i got them from said that some females are gravid, I can't tell that myself as i'm new to pleco's. And it's hard to see them most of the time.

Thanks again for the help.

[TwoTankAmin]

I tend to agree with Jobro. At least 1 cave per pleco. I may have a couple more than that but I tend to provide a lot of wood and rock work wjich offers a lot of hiding places. I have also found P. compta females may cave, but I have not seen this with my other pleco species. Females may overnight in a cave or hide there, but I have not seen them hold them the way I saw with my comptas.

What I did see was that the females were inclined to raid a cave with a dad on eggs/wigglers and eat them to get a shot at spawning with the male. It was suggested that I try working with pairs, but I did not have space to do this.

I also got to watch pair in action. the male had claimed a cave and continued to grow over time. When he was finally ready to spawn, he had a female in his cave when he discovered it was not too small for two plecos. I watched him clean he entrance to an bigger adjacent cave and wondered if and how he might persuade her to move down one, please. I was cleaning the tank below the compta tank and this was all at eye level. But I got busy cleaning and when I checked back about 15 minutes later, the pair was in the bigger cave.

This is the sort of event that when I get to see it, it makes me happy I keep fish.

Bear in mind there are multiple ways to do almost everything in/with a tank and fish. Some work well for some folks while other methods do not. A lot of the success with spawning is actually a bit of trial and error to figure out what will work best for you with any given species.

[Jobro]

I have also found P. compta females may cave, but I have not seen this with my other pleco species. Females may overnight in a cave or hide there, but I have not seen them hold them the way I saw with my comptas.

Strange. I find almost all of my pleco females like to hide in caves during day. With some Panaqolus and Ancistrus females being exceptions. In those cases even the males do not always or rather rarely cave during day, so I assume the species are less cave bound overall. Hypancistrus females always cave for me

But I can agree, that there is a distinct difference between a male caving and a female caving. The females tend to switch between caves a lot. Males tend to stay true to their chosen caves.

I also got to watch pair in action. the male had claimed a cave and continued to grow over time. When he was finally ready to spawn, he had a female in his cave when he discovered it was not too small for two plecos. I watched him clean he entrance to an bigger adjacent cave and wondered if and how he might persuade her to move down one, please. I was cleaning the tank below the compta tank and this was all at eye level. But I got busy cleaning and when I checked back about 15 minutes later, the pair was in the bigger cave.

I see this a lot with my comptas, too. The male will switch to a bigger cave for spawning. While he claims a smaller cave when he does not want to spawn. This will always tell me when he is ready to go again

In my belief, the males do not need to convince a female to come to their cave. So switching to a different cave is no problem for the pair. I think females are the ones that convince males to let them enter their caves. A male will not let a female enter if he does not feel it's the right time and place. Panaqolus and peckoltia seem to work that way. Same with ancistrus. But watching hypancistrus spawn usually looks like a violent act. Like the males would really trap and force the female to spawn. But I have seen very gentle hypancistrus trappings too. But it seems to be a rare act on hypancistrus. Overall it looks rather violent, which probably led to the word "trapping". But for us spectators it's hard to tell if the hypancistrus females like being pushed against the back of the cave or not... Tastes are different, right?

And as Chris stated, what works for some might not work for you. Plecos are just as different as people.

[pointpleco]

Some good info there from you guys. At the moment all six of mine have been in the caves. At least four in the smaller caves but one male is in a bigger one. At the moment i'm just letting them settle in as they have only been here for 1 week. But in the near future i hope they spawn of coarse.
They seem shy in the day and will only slowly back out and watch me.
But at feeding time at night they notice all the food behind them and all back out and watch me. But won't eat until i have turned lights off and gone. When i look in the morning most of the food is now gone. Which is good they are eating because the first 2 nights they didn't and i was worried.
I suppose they were just getting used to the new tank.

Thanks