Adding A Second Spawning Report

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Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Mr Whippy »

I added a spawning report yesterday for my sturisoma festivum but today the group have produced a second clutch of eggs. I can't see how I add a second report, only how to edit the first. Is there a way to do this?
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Jools »

There isn't a way to do this at present. It is something that's has both been mentioned before and I think I'd like to do something about. However it would be entering some dates rather than multiple entire spawning reports.
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Mr Whippy »

Thank you for your reply. Being able to enter dates would be useful perhaps to establish spawning frequency.
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by bekateen »

Perhaps it could be more than simply multiple dates? For example, if in the future the data will ever be mined (e.g., to create an integrated data set for variables such as ideal pH, temp, etc.,... Like this: Enhancement idea: Can we create a Summary BLOG for spp. with multiple BLOG entries?*), then it would be helpful to know whether the first spawning was 20 eggs and occurred at pH 6.4, but the second spawning was 50 eggs and occurred at pH 7.6, etc. Currently, I am recording that info (dates, # eggs, etc.) in the text fields of my BLOGs, and I'm just adding the different pH, hardness, etc., values into the range which I already provided for the first spawning. But when pH, hardness, etc., are in the text fields, they would not be easily extracted for data mining. And just offering a single range to represent the various values of pH, etc, doesn't reveal if a particular pH was more common than any other in the range. For example, 5 spawnings at pH 6.4 and 1 spawning at pH 7.0 would clearly show that lower pH is better, but just saying pH between 6.4 and 7.0 doesn't tell you if the fish have a preference within that span.

Can multiple spawning reports be handled in a fashion similar to the way that multiple populations are handled in the Registered Keepers? Thus just as a person can click on the "Add to My Cats" cats link to create a new population, perhaps there could be a "Create a BLOG report" link which is kept separate from other pre-existing BLOGs for the same user for the same species?

Cheers, Eric

* Gee whiz, what a nifty idea! ;-) :d =))
Last edited by bekateen on 14 Sep 2015, 19:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Mol_PMB »

With my Farlowellas (yes, I know I keep going on about these but I'm proud of them!) I've probably had about 10-15 spawns but there have been several different experiences with them, including whether one or both males have been involved, how many (if any) of the eggs have hatched, and how well the fry have done with my various (and hopefully improving) husbandry input.
I've tried to document most of this on my forum thread because it's not really practical within the spawning report.
A particular example would be the sizes/growth rates of the fry which depend very much on my (developing) feeding techniques.
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by bekateen »

Hi Jools,

I noticed recently that you've added an enhancement to the BLOG data pages where we have some fields at the top of the page to record multiple spawns. This is a wonderful addition, thank you...

And now I confess my ignorance: How do we use these fields (inside the red circle on the image below)? They appear to be file selection boxes where we can click the "Browse buttons and choose files to reflect our multiple spawns. But what kind of files are you looking for here? Images? Text? Spreadsheets? Also, I don't understand how the descriptive text above these boxes pertains to these boxes; it seems like it doesn't if I'm understanding it correctly.

Finally, is the "m" (inside the green circle on the image below) a typo or is it supposed to be something more?
blog.png
Thanks for moving on this (the multiple spawns thing).

Cheers, Eric
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Jools »

Ah, I wish it were so, this is a layout bug. These are the image upload boxes for some reason they are in the wrong place...

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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by bekateen »

Okay, thanks for explaining. Maybe next time! ;-)

Cheers, Eric
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by pleconut »

Jools,
This is just a question, that I'm posting here, I'm aware it may need to be asked somewhere else though, I just updated a recent spawning report, as it didn't result in any fry. I then had to make a change again, as I'd mistakenly put the wrong age in for the adults. Are the points added each time something is added to it? Just it somehow doesn't feel right if i got those points, if they are given each time. (also given that i bungled it, as it was my first time, as were the fish, when I was attempting raising the eggs myself) .
Thanks Teresa
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by bekateen »

Hi Teresa,

The points are not straight forward,they are funny that way.

As far as I can tell, you don't gain points by replacing preexisting data. Okay, so that's not the peculiar part. What is odd is that you can actually lose points if you add certain info, or so I have seen: In regards the food choices, when i started filling out my first blogs, I listed all the food I ever fed the fish (not specially what I was feeding them before the spawning). So I would have 5 or 6 foods listed in one blog. Then I removed some food because I thought it was misleading, and my score went up. When I noticed this, I added my old food back and my score went down again. I expect this is a fluke in the code and not intentional, but it's not a big deal.

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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by pleconut »

I cant remember exactly, how many points it was, I'd expect you would only get the points once, not counting any further updates, on the spawns taking place on the same date. But it appeared i was awarded them per update. However, if it was a new date recorded for a subsequent spawn, then the points would be given again.
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by pleconut »

I've just checked out my blog on the Clog page, only one set of points. So now I've just found out the answer to my question.
Thanks Teresa
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Jools »

Jools wrote:Ah, I wish it were so, this is a layout bug. These are the image upload boxes for some reason they are in the wrong place...
What had happened with these file selection input boxes was that simply I had gotten about 75% of the way through the layout refresh for this page and then stopped for some reason! The new layout for that page is now complete. I only have a few more to do on the breeding log side of things and that will be another job finally done. yay!

Anyway, if you want to discuss ranking points, please start another thread, I would be happy to explain it all there if there isn't one already in existence.

This thread can now go back to being about multiple spawning reports. A big amendment, but one that a lot of folks have asked about over the years.

Cheers,

Jools
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by pleconut »

Thanks Jools, for the advice to start another thread, re ranking points. I was aware this may have not been the right thread to ask it in, as i wasn't sure that this was part of the changes. This was my first blog, but it seems my question has been answered. If i find need more info I will run a forum search, failing this, i will start a thread.
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by sturiosoma »

Any update on adding mutiple spawning reports, I entered my most recent L454 spawn of 12-19-22 but had to eliminate my spawn of 9-17-22 so you can't even track growth rates

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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by bekateen »

sturiosoma wrote: 08 Jan 2023, 16:56 Any update on adding mutiple spawning reports, I entered my most recent L454 spawn of 12-19-22 but had to eliminate my spawn of 9-17-22 so you can't even track growth rates

Jeanne
Hi Jeanne,

When I have multiple spawns, I type only the fastest growth rates and the largest egg number per spawn in the size boxes, then I document the other data in the narrative. If the data is too extensive, I type it up in a forum thread, then put a link in the breeding report to take readers to the forum thread.

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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Jools »

I'm looking at adding this feature - that is adding second, third (i.e. multiple) spawning reports. How should it work?

Would you upload a completely new report each time? A subset of data (e.g. date of spawn), and if so what else is important?

Would you "autoload" the data from the "My Aquarium" record to begin with, or copy from the first or latest report for that species?

Images, especially, would you really want to upload new sets of them each time?

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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by bekateen »

Hi Jools,

I just tried out the multiple spawns feature on my Ancistrus sp(8). I see for now it allows multiple spawn dates. If that works, I presume you would basically replicate that structure for things like water parameters, tank size, egg count, etc?

Cheers,
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Jools »

This got me for ages as I couldn't figure out how to make this work. We actually need two different things.

One is to record spawning in the same aquarium and population and this is what I am working on now and that you've seen.

A bigger piece of work is, for a new aquarium or population, then create another spawning report.

Hope that makes sense,

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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by bekateen »

Yes, makes sense. As I think about it, you could do for all the other fields what you do now for dates. But I think the risk there is that the user doesn't carefully carry over/align the other fields with the dates (i.e., do they unintentionally type the tank size for spawn 3 in the line for spawn 2?).

Alternatively, I might envision a workflow path like this: The author (breeder) already has one breeding report. When they click to "Edit" an existing report, they are confronted with a question and two choices:
  • What do you want to do?
    • (link 1) "Edit an existing breeding report"
    • (link 2) "Add a new (second, third, etc.) breeding report"
If they want to add a second (third, fourth, etc.) report, you could approach it in two ways
  • Simply give them a new blank BLOG page to fill out entirely
  • Present to them a display of their most recent BLOG report for that species (this would be their original if only one exists), with a checkable list of all the most recent info. Allow them to check the info they want to change for the new report (or alternatively, allow them to check the existing data they want to keep), then when they press submit (or Go!, whatever), this forwards them to a partially complete BLOG for which they just fill in the new info.
The latter is probably too difficult to program, but would save users time if things like tank size, etc., didn't change and they're just saying that the same group of fish spawned again in the same tank.

I suppose one other issue to consider is what if a breeder with multiple reports wants to edit a report? Do you display a list of all their existing reports for that species and have a link beside which one they want to edit?

If implemented in any form, how do multiple BLOGs get displayed? When a user clicks on the list of BLOG reports for a species, do they see the same breeder listed multiple times if they have multiple reports? Or a single entry for each breeder, with a notation for the number of BLOG reports they have (in that case, if they click on that breeder, they are given a page with an itemization of each BLOG copy, and they can read each, one at a time)?

Cheers, Eric
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Jools »

Good suggestions!
bekateen wrote: 21 Feb 2023, 20:52The latter is probably too difficult to program, but would save users time if things like tank size, etc., didn't change and they're just saying that the same group of fish spawned again in the same tank.
This wouldn't be that hard too do but I want to avoid as much as I can. It's just duplicating data and is what the multiple spawning dates are for.

I will keep it in mind the checkbox "copy forward" idea as I do the second bit, but most of the data could be different, so I am not sure. It would also encourage [some] folks to just propagate old data which is not good. I would like to promote the provision of new, quality data in all this.

Bear in mind also that the data for a second blog is meant to be different, if you make it too easy to replicate blogs, then folks might get confused between "I want to add another spawn event for that tank/population" and "I spawned another population in another tank".

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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by bekateen »

Jools wrote: 21 Feb 2023, 21:15 It would also encourage [some] folks to just propagate old data which is not good. I would like to promote the provision of new, quality data in all this.

Bear in mind also that the data for a second blog is meant to be different, if you make it too easy to replicate blogs, then folks might get confused between "I want to add another spawn event for that tank/population" and "I spawned another population in another tank".

Jools
All true. Giving them a blank slate and getting them to input a full set of up-to-date data each time would improve odds that they don't neglect to update all details.

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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by aaatropicalfish »

As a long-time lurker, the BLOG information is incredibly valuable, and those of us in the community focused on breeding are grateful for the efforts to include more reports.

Thanks!

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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Jools »

Love a lurker! :-) Thanks Travis.

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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Jools »

Some progress. The "further spawning dates" feature is up and running, just cleared quite a lot of testing, so I hope it's pretty much complete without bugs that I can think of.

This is meant to be used for recording multiple spawning events with the same population / aquarium.

Cheers,

Jools
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Re: Adding A Second Spawning Report

Post by Jools »

bekateen wrote: 14 Sep 2015, 18:56Perhaps it could be more than simply multiple dates?
bekateen wrote: 14 Sep 2015, 18:56Can multiple spawning reports be handled in a fashion similar to the way that multiple populations are handled in the Registered Keepers? Thus just as a person can click on the "Add to My Cats" cats link to create a new population, perhaps there could be a "Create a BLOG report" link which is kept separate from other pre-existing BLOGs for the same user for the same species?
I'm looking at this now. What I am trying to avoid is near copies of existing reports but I don't necessarily want to restrict the new BLOG to have to be from a different "my aquarium" record. Having a look into how this might work...

Jools
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