Rubberlipped plec feeding questions

jen.nelson · Post by **jen.nelson** » 03 May 2005, 03:53

Hello all,
I brought home a rubberlipped/bulldog plec (looks like Chaetostoma milesi but I've been trying not to stare at him too much) on Sunday. He's in my 10 gal QT right now, with a piece of heavy driftwood, two filters (~250 gph together) and a 10" bubble wand. Temp is 80, ammonia is zero, nitrite is zero and nitrate is less than 10. I generally do daily water changes with my QT. (Water parameters in tank match tap, so water changes don't present a fluctuation issue.) The QT has been set up and cycled in the past and one of the two filters is maintained at ready state on another tank, with one left on the QT and some food provided to get the biofilter along until the next resident.

He seems calm and has gone from sticking to the glass to cruising around and hiding in the spaces under the wood.

I've offered parboiled zucchini and algae wafers. I've been leaving the lights in the room dimmed as much as possible and there is no light on the tank.

Since he's alone in the QT, it should be easy to tell if he's consuming anything (and he's not so far, unless he's finding some leftover algae on the glass). Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I tend to get attached to my catfish, so I want to be sure I do this right.

Thanks in advance,
Jen

Post by **Shane** » 03 May 2005, 16:52

Jen,
Everything sounds right except the temp. It should be in the 74-76 range. Chaetostoma can be difficult to get to start eating. I would call the store where you bought him and see what they are feeding. Until then use live bloodworms and eventually move to frozen foods. Add veggies every few days until the fish figures out they are food.
-Shane

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 03 May 2005, 20:56

Good luck with your Chae, Jen!

Once settled, they will eat, but it may take a week or two. They sometimes seem to eat and then not eat at all and then eat non-stop, day and night.

Shane, I've seen a few different spellings: Chaestoma, Chaetostoma. Are both correct? Or am I totally dyslexic?

Post by **Shane** » 03 May 2005, 21:58

The genus is Chaetostoma. The old, and now corrected, spelling sometimes seen was Chaetostomus. Chaestoma is incorrect altogether. Pronunciation is "Kay-toe-stoma-ah."
-Shane

jen.nelson · Post by **jen.nelson** » 03 May 2005, 23:22

Thanks for the help. I adjusted the tank temp when I came home from lunch. He seems to have settled into one part of the tank as his hang-out spot, underneath an overhang of the wood that I put in there. I'm going to call around and see what live foods the local stores may have; my strong suspicion is that he wasn't fed at the store I got him from (I won't be a customer again...little longer story there), or, rather, they threw in the flake food they had for everything else, and, so, he really didn't eat...

Up to this point, I haven't had a need for live foods - all my other fishies are content with anything that doesn't move fast enough.

With fish, is the preference for live vs. frozen based on movement or smell, or something else? (I'm asking because I keep snakes that I've transitioned over to frozen food, so I'm curious what the feeding triggers might be for fish.)

Thanks again for your replies. I really appreciate any and all advice or information you might care to share.

Have a great day,
Jen

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 04 May 2005, 09:34

jen.nelson wrote:Up to this point, I haven't had a need for live foods - all my other fishies are content with anything that doesn't move fast enough. With fish, is the preference for live vs. frozen based on movement or smell, or something else? (I'm asking because I keep snakes that I've transitioned over to frozen food, so I'm curious what the feeding triggers might be for fish.)

Live food is "more attractive" to the fish for several reasons (I believe):
1. The live food moves about, which attracts the fish to it.
2. It's tasting better. In my experience, the fish is much more attracted to the live bloodworms than the frozen ones, even as they fall into the tank, and I can't believe the little difference in movement between frozen/defrosted ones being poured in and the live ones being poured in makes that much difference to the fish. It must taste better...

Yes, live food is a bit of a pain, especially if you don't have a local shop that stocks what you want.

Bloodworms seems like one of the best live foods (they are mosquito larvae), and just about any fish will go crazy for them.

--
Mats

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 04 May 2005, 15:20

Thanks, Shane.

Jen, I have the "night lights" to watch this guy.

He sometimes comes out during the day to feed with the others(this is a 75 gallon tank with Cories, Otos and Tetras), but he's active at night. He runs laps, literally. Stopping every few laps to chow on algae. The rest of the tank inhabitants are quite still at night. He's got the run of the place. During the day, the opposite is true. He comes out when he smells food, but stays here:

between his favorite rock and a piece of driftwood. He can stay there for hours. I never have to clean his favorite rocks, he does that. As for food, once they're settled, almost anything will do. He can get territorial over an algae wafer.

Shane, any ideas on what the eyesight is like for the Chaetostoma? There are times when he seems to be "feeling" his way around.

When he's got his dark colors, you can hardly see his eyes.

Post by **Shane** » 05 May 2005, 00:20

Eyes are high on the head as they live in shallow waters and their main predators come from above (i.e. birds). The waters are also, usually, quite clear so good vision would be advantageous. The only two predators found alongside Chaetostoma are Hoplias malabaricus and various pike cichlid spp. That said, I think these two slender-bodied predators make most of their living off of tetras and livebearers and I doubt much of their diet consists of loricariids. It may sound weird, but I have caught guppies in every stream I have found Chaetostoma. I would actually recommend wild type guppies (not fancy varieties however) for a mountain stream biotope.
-Shane

jen.nelson · Post by **jen.nelson** » 05 May 2005, 02:29

Thanks again for all the interesting discussion. I would believe that the eyesight is keen, as he is quite adept at spotting me in a mostly dark room - if I approach when he's not stuck to the front glass (which is where he's at now - I am taking it as a hopeful sign that he's ventured beyond his seemingly favorite spot under the wood).

My tank temp is down to around 75, which is as cool as the water is going to get here without a chiller, at least for the next several months.

I called around to every LFS I could think of and found out that (1) none carry live worms and (2) "Do you have worms?" is an interesting way to start a conversation.

The only live foods I could find were ghost and brine shrimp. I'm thinking the only option I have for live worms would be a spade and my backyard... Of course, if we're talking about mosquito larvae, you'd think I could just set out a bucket of water and let nature take it's course - I am in Florida after all!

I've offered a couple type of algae wafers, Aquadine spirulina flakes, zucchini, and frozen bloodworms (water changes ongoing to keep the quality up). I figure I'll keep offering things in hopes that he'll take it as he gets more comfortable with the environment. Hard to tell if some of the smaller food has been taken, what with all the water movement going on in the tank. Speaking of lotsa water movement, would it be good to put something that's got a bit higher coefficient of friction than glass into the tank for him to stick to?

I have sand as substrate in my main tank - will he be happier with this than with gravel, or is it not a factor? (I know the Corys do seem to like the sand MUCH better, so I'm just curious.)

Also, are these guys more solitary fish, or do they do better with other individuals of the same species? What I've read seems to indicate that they're OK by themselves, but if he'd be happier with a buddy, I can certainly accommodate.

Thanks again for all the really cool discussion and for sharing your knowledge. I really do appreciate it.

Jen

jen.nelson · Post by **jen.nelson** » 05 May 2005, 04:30

Sad news... my little guy passed on tonight. I'm really not sure why. Water quality was still fine and he didn't show any obvious signs of disease, although there appeared to be a couple of injured spots on top of his head, between his eyes and his snout.

Since I lost a Bristlenose and one of the rosy barbs acquired at the same time from the same store (BN died within 24 hr, and the rosy barb was dead this AM), I'm thinking it's an issue of stock quality. (I can't believe I'm suddenly that fatally incompetent - if I am, someone needs to warn all the happy fishies in the big tank!!)

Thanks again everyone for your sharing.

Jen (very bummed about 3 fish funerals in 3 days)[/b]

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 05 May 2005, 09:46

Jen,

Sorry to hear that you lost the Chaetostoma (and the other fish you lost too, of course).

As to getting Mosquito larvae, yes, you can grow your own, I don't see a problem with that. Red bloodworms is a special kind of mosquito, but black ones (the more common variety, if I understand things right) would work just fine too, I used to buy them in Sweden many years back.

--
Mats

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 05 May 2005, 14:04

Jen, I lost 2 others since January. I used to blame it on a myriad of reasons. But, I think it can be difficult to keep a Chaetostoma alive.

This guy's only been here since January. I worry for him a lot. I've seen them marketed a lot recently and no two seem to be the same species. All three were different. They're being sold as "algae eaters." But they seem to be complicated creatures in an aquarium setting. Shane knows about them both in the wild and in aquaria.

I wouldn't say you are incompetent by a long shot. You care and take the time to prepare and have a QT tank. This says a lot. Don't let this episode deter you from trying again, no matter if it's a Chaetostoma, a Bristlenose or some other species.

Shane, Endler's Livebearers?

Post by **Shane** » 05 May 2005, 14:37

Jen,
Sory about the fish. Sometimes we all have a set back.
Bronzefry,
Endler's are coastal like most mollies and swordtails. They have limited environment on the north central coast of Venezuela. If you can ever get your hands on them, my favorite are Micropoecilia picta. This a beautiful little blackwater livebearer (yeah, who thinks of blackwater livebearers) found in The Orinoco.
-Shane

jen.nelson · Post by **jen.nelson** » 05 May 2005, 14:55

Thanks, guys. You've all been very nice, kind, and informative and I really appreciate it. I'm happy to have become a member of such a wonderful community.

Thanks again, and have a great day,
Jen