elevated activity level with s. petricolas

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 05 Mar 2003, 13:59

I wrote recently about my 5 petricolas in a 40 BR tank in which over the last couple of months I planted some vals which are now taking off and making for lots of "screening" in the water column above the rocks/caves. I have tried to get some photos...video is the only thing that works but nothing too good yet (tried again last night and batteries ran out but maybe today I can see if I can capture an image). All that is preface to my question....

Often in the evening these fish get active (even before the lights go out) but last night it was beyond belief....they...all five...were chasing, schooling and all over the tank...for hours...before and after the lights went out. One of the females particularly is VERY large in her belly and she seemed to be one of the most active. I checked all water parameters and they are the usual (even though this does not look like stress of any sort) so I am wondering if this is typical of spawning? behavior? I have two "caves" set up as I mentioned in my previous post but don't have the breeding net in there...am considering adding it if in fact this could be an opportune time to capture some eggs should they happen to release in one of the caves. Hopefully if they are scattered elsewhere, they might be "hidden" in the plants/roots/system or around the many rocks in the tank. Any thoughts as to whether this IS mating that is going on? They seemed to still be at it this morning.

Post by **Dinyar** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:08

Barbara,

I can't really answer your question. I can say that my S. petricola swim actively all over the tank all the time, but this does not seem to be mating behavior.

Dinyar

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:15

Thanks for your response. There IS a lot of nudging going on. : ) I know you mentioned previously that they could be a bit young for breeding behavior...I suspect they ARE three years old perhaps. It is just such a change in their usual that it caught my attention....perhaps it is just the increased "cover" provided by the vals that encourages them to come out more....and perhaps I am going to have the benefit of having more active fish now...nice to have a tank with some activity going on rather than just seeing plants. LOL

Post by **Dinyar** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:22

I think lots of transient things influence activity levels in fish like S. petricola, including how hungry they are, the weather, and of course, also mating behavior. So a burst of activity COULD well be a refelection of mating behavior, but isn't necessarily.

Dinyar

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:41

ah yes the weather....btw, I noticed one of my cats going berserk last night too. perhaps it will be one of these other things. thanks for mentioning these other variables as I will include them in my consideration.

Do your petricolas eat snails? Mine will if I crush them but don't seem to otherwise. I have been wondering what folks find to be their favorite foods as mine seem to have limited likings...and the book I have on them and other info I have found seems to indicate a limited palate. Have you ever fed Cal. Blackworms? On AusCat I saw reference to black wigglers and wonder if they are the same thing....I think folks there mentioned their petricolas liking them but the only info I have seen printed refers to crustaceans I believe....mine will (it seems) eat brine shrimp flake but not particularly any cichlid pellets. Bloodworms (frozen) seem to be their favorite food but they are not all that anxious to eat...they WILL come out an eat more now but the appearance of food is not necessarily a big motivation for them to come out and swim around (other than recently) and they seem to need only very small amounts.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:42

It looks like they're on it, though.
Pre-mating behaviour involves the females getting restless at first, then the males go for it too. While normally cruising at moderate speed, "mating speed" is more of a frenzy. I can spot it right away with mine; for months or weeks they are just going through the tank at leisure; then a few days of complete madness, wich results in spawning (this looks weird), after wich things settle back fairly fast.
Three years is old enough for S 'petricola dwarf' to spawn, allright. How long the true petricola takes to reach spawning age, I don't know.
The bigger species (polli, "polli II", multipunctatus etc) seems to mature in at least 4-5 years; although I've known multipunctatus to go for it sooner.

The true spawning behaviour in some syno's seems to be very strange: according to a friend of mine who breeds several species (among them 2 petricola-species, 2 polli-species, 2 multipunctatus species and S nyassee) and who's the breeder of the "polli II" I now own, their fertilation is as follows:
-Chasing of the syno's
-Male wraps itself around the females' head, and releases sperm
-female leaves the embrace and releases the eggs in the sand, or in dense plants, a shell/cichlid nest etc.
According to him; the female SWALLOWS the sperm; it travels THROUGH the fish, and fertilates the eggs INTERNALLY...!!!
I've seen "petricola dwarf" and Polli (the true one) spawning myself, and the egglaying females are sometimes quite a big way from the site where the 'embrace' happened.
Another thing; unlike Corydoras, Syno's (or at least S polli and S "petricola dwarf", to be sure) do NOT carry eggs in their ventral fins; they release the eggs later than the 'embrace' and often on a different spot; not to mention they try to put the eggs in the sand or in the plants...This supports this strange notion Rene made.
Anybody know this too or are we seeing things that aren't there??

Post by **Dinyar** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:48

SG_Eurystomus wrote:According to him; the female SWALLOWS the sperm; it travels THROUGH the fish, and fertilates the eggs INTERNALLY...!!!

That was all very interesting info, Sid, thanks. But the tidbit quoted above sounds a bit fishy to me! Maybe you should email Monica Lewinsky about this!

Dinyar

Post by **Silurus** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:56

Heh heh, heard that sperm swallowing thing (in a slightly modified version) for <i>Corydoras</i> as well.

Post by **Dinyar** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:59

"Swallowing" sperm is of course well documented in many fish, e.g., mouth brooders. But swallowed sperm resulting in internal fertilization? That would be a startling discovery indeed!

Dinyar

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 05 Mar 2003, 15:03

wow!! head wrapping I've NOT seen! but the level of activity that is frenzied is definitely what I was seeing last night and this morning they are still restless...last night they just didn't give up at all....and the groupings of two and three swimming body to body, but parallel, with some sense of the head of the male nudging the belly/midsection of the female periodically was part of what caused the question to arise...I had read that males bump their heads into the female's belly/side as part of their "ritual"...was that here on the s. petricola COTM article? I don't recall....just musing/rhetorical question.

Can either of you say more about the dwarf and other petricolas (how to distinguish) as this was mentioned before and I hadn't realized there are various petricolas....or did someone run this by me before and I forgot. : (

Post by **Dinyar** » 05 Mar 2003, 15:20

barbara wrote:Can either of you say more about the dwarf and other petricolas (how to distinguish) as this was mentioned before and I hadn't realized there are various petricolas....or did someone run this by me before and I forgot. : (

Barbara,

A place to start is the Catelog on this site. There are pictures of two species, the dwarf and non-dwarf species. Apart from being much smaller, the dwarf also has larger and fewer spots than typical non-dwarf. But it's very hard to generalize, because IMO/IME, there are multiple types of both dwarf and non-dwarf. In my tank alone, I see what strike me as 4-5 different species. Someone with good ichthyological training should take a careful look at this to see if they are really different species. (Hint, hint, but no taker so far!

)

I've got to get to work now, but I'll try to remember to post a photo in this forum of my "Giant petricola". One of these days when Rusty and I have time on our hands, we plan to take detailed mugshots of all our Tang Synos.

Dinyar

barbara · Post by **barbara** » 05 Mar 2003, 15:51

Thanks...I didn't know that existed....it is only recently that I have been able to load this site with my mac...thanks to OS10.x. I will try to get those images of mine captured...hopefully there will be some that are usable. Thanks for your help....mine seem to have less spots and also more irregular in size spots on the body and the background color varies in tone from tannish on some to greyish on one or two. I HAD read this was a distinguishing feature sex-wise but it doesn't seem to be so as I THINK I can see a little projection (male I assume!) on ones of both background tones.