Parotocinclus sp. Nanay Eanea

[apistomaster]

These little guys do look like they belong in their own genus to me.
I used warmer water but I am sure they would be fine in water between 74 and 84*F as long as they have strong currents and high dissolved O2 levels.
Mine were being kept with Black Darter Tetra and the Tetras seemed to like warmer water so I went with that.
Actually, during the summer I have little choice. It is hot here and I did not have a working air conditioner.
It gets about 103 and up to 116*F here for a week or two. Rarely less than 100*F during most of the summer.

[James0816]

Found my documents! Yay! (I've got to organize my research better).

As for the water, tannins are ok for both the Nanno and Paro species. I did get them mixed up with the Stiphodon percnopterygionus which require very clear water. Since they were all going in the same tank, that's where I crossed my notes at.

[apistomaster]

I forgot to mention that I knew in advance I was going to be getting 20 of these neat little guys. I allowed their future home, a 20 long with a carpet of Java moss attached to wood, to accumulate a good growth of algae which also covered the glass. Within 48 hours after their arrival they had eaten ALL of the algae. Then all I had for them that they ate well was Spirulina Sticks. They thrived for me on this diet for two years until the mechanical failure of the power head.
These little Loricariidae love a strong current. Mine would gather in front of the power head outlet where the currents blasted the substrate off the bottom glass. They would hang on to the bare glass with their sucker mouths swaying in the strong current. I use Maxi Jet 600 power heads connected directly to Azoo OxygenPlus Bio-Filter model #6 by using the extension tube that comes with the power head. This fits perfectly on the sponge filter where the air lift tube normally goes. I usually lay my assembled filters over on their sides so the currents flow across the bottom and it allows me to make large water changes without having to unplug the power heads.
Everyone of all my tanks between 20 longs and 40 breeders have one of these powered sponge filters, one other running in the air lift mode plus one air stone for good measure. Sometimes I leave out the air stone and run air into the Venturi attachment of the power head to get my bubbles that way.

I had that power head failure which cost me all of my little P.cf eppelyi or whatever these really are and I would like to replace them.
If you still know where I could get some please share. Please PM me or post here.
I would love to breed any one of these species of micro sucker mouth cats.
Does anyone know of a credible breeding report?

[bsmith]

Larry just search for anubisdesign yahoo group, you can order from there.

[apistomaster]

Bummer.
I'm on Mark's s**t list.
My expectations for high quality and live arrival seem to be in conflict with his standards.
He will not sell to me because of this.
Thanks anyway.
I can get them from http://www.thewetspottropicalfish.com/fish without any quality and live arrival problems.
It requires being patient enough for them to restock.

[bsmith]

That doesnt sound good. I hope my dealings this go around are more productive then yours were.

[James0816]

I haven't had any issues with Mark's stock. I did however, have a bad experience with The Wet Spot unfortunately. My first group of Nanno's came from them and they never made it past acclimation. Was very dissappointed. I got the group in from Mark, and they all did splendid. Which is why I ordered more. Just have to wait a couple more weeks. Actually, this weekend they should be in.

Found all my little Paro's today. Still active as can be. A majority are hanging out in the stream of the powerhead.

[apistomaster]

I think it is a good idea to buy from on line dealers who are closer to your location. That seems to help minimize the problems.
This group of tiny catfish are pretty delicate fish and the dealers/importers loose quite a few themselves.
Other fish are so hardy that distance doesn't matter much.
Over half of all the fish I ordered arrived DOA. Silver hatchets and Green Neon tetras were among those which had the highest DOA numbers in my order.
I actually was banned after a prior order but used a different name and e-mail address the next time several years later.
So I have been banned twice.
No other dealer I have bought from has ever taken this action.

[bsmith]

That really is not good. I have had my fair share of DOA's when receiving fish and 90% of the time the shipper has been great, as I followed all the procedures but I have had a few instances where the seller was completely in the wrong and did not follow their end of the deal. Its unfortunate.

Mark did ensure me thought that he hasn't lost a single one (maybe smoke but I have no way of telling 100%). ;)

[apistomaster]

All I know is that I ship out hundreds of fish every year and my loss rate is less than 1%.
Most people I buy from have similarly low shipping losses so anything different stands out to me.
Everyone says their fish were fine when they packed them.
The shady ones always are quick to try to plant doubts in your mind that the losses must be caused by something you didn't do right.
How they can say that when all you have done is open their boxes and find a bunch of fish DOA is beyond me.
I am talking about over night delivery in good weather so there are no extenuating circumstances.

[bsmith]

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately some people value the money they gain over the service they provide. I hope that's not the case Friday!

To get back on track.

My Nanay are being shipped next day tomorrow so I hope I get them Friday. They are coming from PA and I live in MO so that doesn't seem like it should be an issue as long as the box is taken to the shipping location early enough. Being that it's cold I sure hope they are taken there early!

I'm thinking about getting a small powerhead with a Venturi type device to put in the tank after reading all of the people posting about how they seemed to like to hang out in the direct flow of the current. Or maybe I'll just dust off a 2215 I have or put a 2215 impeller in the 2213 that's filtering the tank currently.

[apistomaster]

Definitely give them a power head. They must prefer currents or they wouldn't spend so much time at the outlet stream.
Be sure to use a sponge filter or some other screen they can not possibly bypass or they will end up being chopped up by the impeller.
Mine always hung out in front of the outlet of the power head even though or because the flow rate was very high.

[bsmith]

Yep, that's what made me want to get one. I'll just have to go snag another Hagen elite tomorrow, unless you have a better option for a small tank like the mini-m they will be put in.

[apistomaster]

I have no experience keeping these in very small tanks.
Regardless of what you use just be sure these small catfish can not be drawn into the power head. Use a sponge media, blue bonded filter mat, nylon screen or filter media bag to cover the intake.

[bsmith]

I learned my lesson with that in my L183 breeding tank. I put a powerhead in there and after a week wondered where my fry where. Well when I opened up the powerhead I found out, yuck!

[James0816]

Also, make sure you have plenty of O2 in the tank. I run an airtube on my powerhead for max O2. Everyone seems to love it.

The Nanno's are more active with Paro's in the tank which I find interesting with the size of the Paro's. Maybe with their small size and constant moving about, it's like little kids with their mums and dads. Just waiting on the next group of Nanno's to come in now.

All are displaying beautiful colors. Getting a good pic has been quite challenging so far.

[nvcichlids]

All are displaying beautiful colors. Getting a good pic has been quite challenging so far.

Can we get a Full Tank Shot of this tank?

[James0816]

Can we get a Full Tank Shot of this tank?

Sure thing. I'll try and snap one this evening.

[apistomaster]

I never cease to be amazed at how small these fish are.
I have a big soft spot for so-called "Nano-fish although I never set them up in the Nano-tanks which have become so popular.
It is interesting that they would be more active in the presence of a larger Parotocinclus sp.
I kept them with Black Darter Tetras(Poeciliocharax weitzmani and I also had a dozen Aspidoras pauciradiatus in their tank.
I hope to get another group of these little sucker mouths. Those and a group of at least 8 wild Tefe Green Discus are the only fish I plan on adding this year.

[bsmith]

The ADA Mini-m mine are going to go in has a few c.habrosus and CRS as well so maybe their constant activity will spur the Nanay's to do the same.

[apistomaster]

These guys really like Spirulina Sticks; much better than the compressed wafer/tabs.
They can't get enough algae except in large planted tanks so we have to provide them a good substitute in small tanks.

[James0816]

Not the best of pics. I tried playing with the panarama setting on the camera but that failed. I'll get a better pic once I get the final scape in place.



I'll be adding a bit more rock and Anubias once I get a few more pieces of driftwood in here.

And here is one of the little Paro's. He's on a 3/4" inch piece of PVC for size reference.

[bsmith]

Wow those are tiny. Pardon my question as I may be asking a stupid one, but that pic is of a nanay, and not the other type you just received?

If so it seems like the nanays are about as big as a juvenile CRS?

Also I think they will enjoy my veggie sticks w/ Ca and the spirulina flakes I have. Especially when they collect on the sponge prefilter for the 2213.

[James0816]

Wow those are tiny. Pardon my question as I may be asking a stupid one, but that pic is of a nanay, and not the other type you just received?

If so it seems like the nanays are about as big as a juvenile CRS?

Also I think they will enjoy my veggie sticks w/ Ca and the spirulina flakes I have. Especially when they collect on the sponge prefilter for the 2213.

Correct, that last pic is of what was labeld as sp. Nanay which is actually sp. 'Peru' (or sp. 3 as it is listed in the clog). I would say they are going to be right around the same size of an adult CRS. Maybe just tick larger. Pretty close in size. Definately smaller than a ghostie.

My other recent arrivals (couple months ago) were the Nannoptopoma sp. 'Peru'. I have another group of them coming in as well.

[apistomaster]

When i had my group of about 20 for two years the largest sized fish were 3/4 inch TL and the others were about 5/8".
I think the females are larger than the males.
I saw what looked like courtship behaviors similar to Otocinclus and Corydoras where smaller males gathered to pursue a large female.
I think breeding these would be one of my most memorable should I ever be so lucky.

I can't seem to find Mark Denaro's web site for www.anubiasdesign.com. I have only found "under construction" search findings.
He has always had a web site so I guess he is doing some changes.

[James0816]

He has been redesigning his web site for a spell now. Primarily operates through his Yahoo group with the same name.

I'm actually contimplating ordering another group of the Paro's since they are so small. Bioload is pretty minor at this point and a planned tank upgrade in the works could lead to better things.

[bsmith]

I received my package of Nanays today, unfortunately when I opened it up two were DOA. I instantly took pics of them in the bag, unopened. Then took off the outer bag (they were packed in two bags)and held it in a manner where the DOA's moved to the corner and could be photographed more easily. Then I dumped most of the bag water out and put the remaining water and the 6 fish in a bowl. I took pics of the DOA's in that arrangement as well. I then removed the DOA's and put them in a Ziploc and put it in the freezer (dont really know why but I figured why not). Then I put a few drops of Prime in the water in the bowl with the remaining four and have been drip acclimating them for the past 4 hours.

They already look great! The banding is nice and dark and they seem to be pretty frisky. One of them is still a bit lightly colored but I'm hoping it will color up soon. I'm going to be putting them in their new home (the Mini-m int he background n the first pic) in about 3-45 minutes!

[James0816]

** WARNING ** These guys are addictingly cute. You'll soon want more!

Sry about the DOA's. I had one that was pinched in the folds of the bag unfortunately. The other (6) are doing outstanding.

I'm already designing the layout of the 30breeder when I get it for the upgrade. I want to work on concealing the powerhead a bit and give a more directional flow. Will do this by hiding it behind a couple of big pieces of slate.

Good luck with your wee ones B!

[apistomaster]

When I had 20 of these theirs was one of my favorite tanks.
I don't think you can have too many of these. My little males would chase the larger females much like my Corydoras hastatus do after a water change. I would love to have about 40 or 50 set up in a well planted 40 gal breeder. I think under such conditions the chances of breeding them would improve and I think breeding these successfully would be one of highlights of my fish breeding career.
I am trying to locate other sources of these little guys.

[bsmith]

Yes, I will have a total of 12-15 before I'm done. When I left the iffice the three that were coloring up wonderfully during acclimating were having fun on the IAL litter that I keep in the tank/sponge prefilter on the 2213's intake pipe/GDA on the glass I aquifers by upping the photoperiod by 1.5h from the day I ordered them/munching on the veggie sticks and spirulina flakes I dropped in after putting them in the tank. They certainly are industrious little guys. I'm a bit worried about the pale one during acclimating thought. One of my co workers (a guy who caught the fever after seeing my mini-m when he started working with me about 2.5y ago that has had him go from a 20g nano SW tank we found on Craigslist to the SW 90g at his home and the SW 60g cube in his office, so he knows about the hobby) was watching the tank with me after putting them in and he remarked "I don't think this ones going to make it". As of when I left my office (~9:45pm) when the three were doing as I posted above the pale rider was MIA...