Glossary questions and requests

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 21 Mar 2006, 18:49

I cross-referenced Shane's new list of words from Skelton's "A Complete Guide To The Freshwater Fishes Of Southern Africa" to two other books:Peterson Field Guides:"Freshwater Fishes" and National Audobon Society "Field Guide To Fishes, North America." Here are the words that are very close in definition(some are identical):
Anterior
Compressed
Depressed
Keel
Lunate
Nape
Posterior
Ray
Truncate
Turbid
It will be difficult to re-write the above. Is it okay to go with the definitions as they are? Please let me know.
Thanks,
Amanda

Post by **Shane** » 21 Mar 2006, 19:14

I do not see why not. You can certainly provide the citations.
-Shane

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 22 Mar 2006, 15:06

Thanks, Shane.

I've found multiple meanings for the word "inferior" for our purposes. Not only does it have the definition from Skelton, but I've also found that it can mean a "downward-slung mouth." The opposite kind of mouth is "terminus." I've seen this contradicted, though. Some sources site "terminus" as just meaning a mouth. Others say "terminus" means an upward-slung mouth and "inferior" means a downward-slung mouth. Any insight?
Amanda

Post by **Silurus** » 22 Mar 2006, 15:17

The following terms refer to mouth orientation:

Inferior - directed downwards

Terminal - directed forwards, i.e. at the tip of the snout

Subterminal - somewhere in between inferior and terminal. A lot of catfishes have subterminal mouths

Superior - directed upwards

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 22 Mar 2006, 15:23

Some breeding terms:
Inbreeding: Breeding close relatives (mother/father x son/daughter, siblings with each other). This is generally considered bad breeding practice as it reduces the variability of the genetics and increases the risk of genetic deformities, etc. It is often used by breeders that try to create specific forms, such as long fins or colour morphs (cf. albino, melanistic, etc)

Linebreeding: A form of inbreeding where the parents are related, but not really closely (i.e. not brother x sister or parent x offspring).

Outcrossing: Adding new blood from an unrelated source - generally used in conjunction with inbreeding/linebreeding to reduce the problems caused by reduced genetic diversity.

Crossbreeding: Similar to outcrossing, but can also be used to indicate different strains or even species being used for parents. Obviously, different species creates a hybrid (see this word).

Anyone for any more?

--
Mats

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Mar 2006, 11:35

Here's one that we haven't got yet:

adipose - means fatty or from fat, and in catfish terms, it is used to refer to the small posterior fin that is behind the dorsal fin (but in front of the caudal) on many catfish - as well as several other types of fish: tetras, salmon family.

Comments welcome...

--
Mats

housewren · Post by **housewren** » 23 Mar 2006, 13:49

Here's one that needs defined for the glossary.

What, exactly, is "rostrum" as it relates to catfish? I don't think of catfish as having a beak or a beak-like projection--which is the common scientific definition.

Cheri

Post by **Silurus** » 23 Mar 2006, 13:50

Rostrum is just another term for snout.

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 23 Mar 2006, 15:21

MatsP wrote:Here's one that we haven't got yet:
adipose - means fatty or from fat, and in catfish terms, it is used to refer to the small posterior fin that is behind the dorsal fin (but in front of the caudal) on many catfish - as well as several other types of fish: tetras, salmon family.

I would get rid of the word "small", simply because some fish have rather large adipose fins.
Also the brackets may be removed, as well as the part behind catfish, thus making the sentence:
... is used to refer to the fin that sits between the dorsal and caudal fin in many catfishes. An adipose fin can also be found in characins, like tetras. Most cyprinids, like goldfish, don't have one.

Just a suggestion.

Post by **Silurus** » 23 Mar 2006, 15:26

Drop the "in catfish terms", because adipose fins are not unique to catfishes. The definition should strictly cover the term "adipose fin", not the word "adipose".

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Mar 2006, 15:58

So:

Adipose fin: Adipose means fatty, it refers to the fin that is between the dorsal fin and the caudal fin on many catfishes. Very few of the catfish genera do not have an adipose fin. An adipose fin can also be find in characins (e.g. tetras), but is not present on cyprinids (e.g goldfish).

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 23 Mar 2006, 17:15

I'd love to see definitions, with examples, for the terms:

synonym
junior synonym

Sorry, I can't submit these myself; too afraid of getting it wrong.

Deborah

housewren · Post by **housewren** » 23 Mar 2006, 17:19

I think "adipose fin" should be designated as rayless, to distinguish it from a second dorsal fin, which has rays.

Also there is a typo in the 3rd sentence

So may be:

Adipose fin: Adipose means fatty, it refers to the rayless fin that is between the dorsal fin and the caudal fin on many catfishes. Very few of the catfish genera do not have an adipose fin. An adipose fin can also be found in characins (e.g. tetras). . . .

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Mar 2006, 17:51

Thanks to Housewren for spotting the typo and pointing out that rayless is definitely an mportant part of the adipose fin [I did know that the adipose fin doesn't have rays, but didn't think about adding it to the post]

Ok, so third attempt:
Adipose fin: Adipose means fatty, it refers to the rayless fin that is between the dorsal fin and the caudal fin on many catfishes. Very few of the catfish genera do not have an adipose fin. An adipose fin can also be found in characins (e.g. tetras), but is not present on cyprinids (e.g goldfish).

--
Mats

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Mar 2006, 18:06

deb wrote:I'd love to see definitions, with examples, for the terms:

synonym
junior synonym

Sorry, I can't submit these myself; too afraid of getting it wrong.

Deborah

Synonym: A scientific name submitted after the currently accepted one; or an older name that has subsequently been replaced [for example when a species is moved from one genus to another].

Junior Synonym: The newer of two synonyms.

Senior Synonym: The older of two synonyms.

I'm sure both Marc and Silurus will have further comments on this one, but the above is something to start with [perhaps]?

--
Mats

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 23 Mar 2006, 19:35

MatsP wrote:Very few of the catfish genera do not have an adipose fin.

Hi Mats,
Why don't you get rid of the double negative? Make it:
Many catfish genera have an adipose fin.
Imo this is much more clear.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 23 Mar 2006, 19:53

Just wanted to give all "glossateers" (esp. Amanda and Mats & HH too) a big

for all the effort going in here. It really is a great effort.

Keep 'em coming - I have a 3 day "window" tomorrow and the weekend to work on the site 12 hours a day. It's what I call fun.

So, I will work more on the glossary technical side too.

Well done all!

Jools

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 23 Mar 2006, 21:53

Amanda, Mats, and Marc -

Before the final version of the definition of adipose is entered, please look at this:

In Corydoras Catfish by Derek Lambourne, the adipose fin is described as consisting of a spiny projection with a membrane attached.

An illustration clearly shows the structure of the adipose, or second dorsal, spine.

Perhaps we need to incorporate some of this into the PC definition? I have more details if you need them.

Deborah

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 23 Mar 2006, 21:54

I love the word "potamodromous!" I think it sounds good off the tongue. It's part of Shane's latest list. "Freshwater fish who migrate." Am I leaving anything out of the definition?

I came up with this last night:
Detritus: Also called mulm. Uneaten food, dead plant matter and faeces which accumulates at the bottom of a fish tank. Detritus is full of nutrients and promotes the growth of unwanted algae.

Anyone want to try:
Genital Papilla?

Adipose Fin: In (2) sources (Audubon & Peterson) it's listed as a "small fleshy fin without rays." The third source(Brian Coad's Dictionary) is identical to this with a disclaimer: "Rarely a hard ray or a few soft rays may be developed in the adipose fin of certain catfishes." Would this be Corydoras?

I think the following words can go in:
Adipose: Fatty.
Rostrum: Snout.
Reticulate: Forming a mesh-like pattern(this was almost identical in many other glossaries)
Ray: A rod-like support structure for the fin.
Spine: A hard ray.

Silurus, would it be appropriate to have a definition for mouth orientation, and then list them. Or, have each term be a distinct definition. We might have two words that are the same. Jools, can I do this?

Deb, welcome. Mistakes are part of the learning process. I make a lot of them daily. I'm not an Icthyologist nor an English teacher. If there's a word that you don't understand, please let us know. If you would like to take a try, feel free, too.

Amanda

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 23 Mar 2006, 23:09

Thanks, Amanda! See my note, just above, about the adipose fin.

How about this word:

rugose - having many wrinkles, folds, or ridges. Example: Trachycorystes trachycorystes is known for its rugose cranial shield.

Deborah

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 24 Mar 2006, 00:43

Sorry, Silurus! I took out "adipose" as a stand-alone.

Deb, I realized after I posted that the title of the book had something to do with Corydoras. Big duh!

It's been a very long, busy week.

Rugose: I have that one as wrinkled and/or rough. Sounds close. Anybody with something to add?

I'm finding it easier to print out the multiple postings and read them. I'm going over Mats'and Marc's suggestions on "synonym", "junior synonym" and "senior synonym." I'll check back later on Friday to see if there's anymore activity on those words. If not, I'll put them in.
Amanda

Post by **Silurus** » 24 Mar 2006, 01:11

You cannot get more "official" than the definitions as used by the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature:

Synonym - "Each of two or more names of the same rank used to denote the same taxonomic taxon." (one can substitute "entity" in place of "taxon", I suppose). You have to remember that synonyms exist at every taxonomic level (although the ones we are most familar are species).

Junior synonym - "Of two synonyms: the later established..."

Senior synonym - "Of two synonyms: the earlier established..."

Subjective synonym - "Each of two or more names whose synonymy is a matter of individual opinion..."

Objective synonym - "Each of two or more synonyms that denote nominal taxa with the same name-bearing type..."

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 24 Mar 2006, 10:25

Genital papilla:
The external part of the reproductive organ.

--
Mats

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 24 Mar 2006, 14:53

Here are some more:

- postcleithral process
- nape
- fontanel
- depressible (teeth)
- suture line
- symphysis
- vomer
- palatines
- interorbital
- porus pectoralis

Source: just half a page of the redescription of Liosomadoras oncinus (Mees, 1978)

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 24 Mar 2006, 15:18

Marc van Arc wrote:Here are some more:

- postcleithral process
- nape
- fontanel
- depressible (teeth)
- suture line
- symphysis
- vomer
- palatines
- interorbital
- porus pectoralis

Source: just half a page of the redescription of Liosomadoras oncinus (Mees, 1978)

I've let this slide until now, but I do think we should restrict glossary additions to terms found on the site, otherwise Amanda may not survive the year! Priority should also be given to commonly used terms over less common ones.

This topic should also discuss these merits / priorities but I fail to see the point in having a site glossary filled with words not on the site!

Jools

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 24 Mar 2006, 16:02

Yes, perhaps those were somewhat over the top. I am thinking of doing an article on Liosomadoras and was hoping someone could explain them

There has been no intention at all to annoy Amanda

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 24 Mar 2006, 16:12

Several of those are descrbed in Fishbase.org - go to http://www.fishbase.org and enter the word in the box just under "Gloassary". Some are not, tho'. "nape" is actually described in a post in this thread - not sure if any other of the words are...

--
Mats

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 24 Mar 2006, 16:49

Thanks Mats, I'll give it a try overthere and will search for nape overhere.

Deb · Post by **Deb** » 24 Mar 2006, 19:06

Did you know that a search of the site turns up several of these words in Silurus' posts?

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... epressible

and here:

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... ight=vomer

Palatine is in there, too, so, in fact, a number of these unusual words do show up on PC.

If I had read those posts when they first went up, I would have asked for words like "vomer" to be defined.
I'd want more information. I admit the words are uncommon, to say the least!

Deborah

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 24 Mar 2006, 21:20

It would be good to catch up with the words we have going now. Everybody is extremely helpful and I can't thank you enough.

Marc, you aren't annoying me in the least. My vocabulary has blossomed in the past week. How could I be annoyed about that?

Amanda