Hoplosternum Punctatum Spawn!

[Bas Pels]

Chances are indeed that what works for Corydoras might very well work for Holosternum.

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I have them in a container of RO water with a pH regulator to keep pH at 7 same as my tap so it's not a major change when they are transitioned back to my tap once older.

I think that might be your problem. If you have hard tap water? I'd just add that to get to a conductivity value, I use about 100 microS. (~65 ppm TDS) and I'd also still add some tannins via Oak (Quercus) leaves etc.

I'd stop using the "pH regulator". I'm going to assume it is a phosphate buffer (di-sodium phosphate and sodium hydrogen phosphate).

Buffering and pH stability is quite a complicated subject area and nearly all the comments made on fish-keeping forums (I know this is a forum), by LFS and by the manufacturers of aquarium buffers are either totally wrong or totally irrelevant.

cheers Darrel

[MissNoodle]

Hi all,

I have them in a container of RO water with a pH regulator to keep pH at 7 same as my tap so it's not a major change when they are transitioned back to my tap once older.

I think that might be your problem. If you have hard tap water? I'd just add that to get to a conductivity value, I use about 100 microS. (~65 ppm TDS) and I'd also still add some tannins via Oak (Quercus) leaves etc.

I'd stop using the "pH regulator". I'm going to assume it is a phosphate buffer (di-sodium phosphate and sodium hydrogen phosphate).

Buffering and pH stability is quite a complicated subject area and nearly all the comments made on fish-keeping forums (I know this is a forum), by LFS and by the manufacturers of aquarium buffers are either totally wrong or totally irrelevant.

cheers Darrel

I wouldnt use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

So in order to keep my pH stable, I have to keep the pH from going all over the place. If my pH didn't jump by the time water changes are due, I wouldn't bother. But, it's very heartbreaking to lose a full tank of fish and don't want to do that again. I lost all but 3 pygmy cories. All of my microdevario kubotai, 15 pygmy cories... gone in a water change.
Another fish keeper a couple blocks down is having same problems raising fry as well, it's causing him problems too, though the city insists the water is unchanged. But using the test kits, we can say it has.

It works for my adult fish, but whatever is contaminating my water kills fry that previously thrived in my tap and kills my neocaridina shrimp, so I started using RO for my fry and shrimp and maintain the same pH for easier transitions when they're old enough to transition back to tap.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

But even a small amount of tap mixed with the RO kills fry as well, tried it with some tetra fry and lost all of them.

[bekateen]

I wouldnt use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

Sorry you lost fish, but I need to raise the question as to whether pH was the cause. I have some tanks at pH 4. When I do water changes, the pH rises to 6. No deaths and sometimes fish spawn. It's not that I try to do this, it's just happens.

Of course, some fish species are more sensitive to pH changes than are others, but in general, a pH change of 1 point is generally pretty safe (if water isn't too hard).

So I'm wondering, 1) What species died? And 2) what else might have been a cause?

Best,
Eric

[MissNoodle]

I wouldnt use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

Sorry you lost fish, but I need to raise the question as to whether pH was the cause. I have some tanks at pH 4. When I do water changes, the pH rises to 6. No deaths and sometimes fish spawn. It's not that I try to do this, it's just happens.

Of course, some fish species are more sensitive to pH changes than are others, but in general, a pH change of 1 point is generally pretty safe (if water isn't too hard).

So I'm wondering, 1) What species died? And 2) what else might have been a cause?

Best,
Eric

It went from 7.6 to 6.4 within a water change, fish started spiraling and dying within an hour. Water dechlorinated, etc. Normal standard water change, nothing was different. Change the water every 7 days, only thing off was the pH suddenly when it used to be the same every time, until they did plumbing work on the street. It's been months after and my pH is still all over the place. It's too high after 1 week of sitting so when refilling the fish react.

It was a tank of nano fish, so more delicate. 7 microdevario kubotai and 15 corydoras pygmaeus all dead within an hour of that water change.

The larger fish flash, but don't drop dead.

There was nothing else out of the norm except the pH change suddenly.

[bekateen]

It could be pH, but also some things (e.g., sulfide gas, chlorine levels) aren't measurable with standard test kits.

Eric

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I wouldn't use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

So in order to keep my pH stable, I have to keep the pH from going all over the place. If my pH didn't jump by the time water changes are due, I wouldn't bother. But, it's very heartbreaking to lose a full tank of fish and don't want to do that again. I lost all but 3 pygmy cories. All of my microdevario kubotai, 15 pygmy cories... gone in a water change.
Another fish keeper a couple blocks down is having same problems raising fry as well, it's causing him problems too, though the city insists the water is unchanged. But using the test kits, we can say it has.

It works for my adult fish, but whatever is contaminating my water kills fry that previously thrived in my tap and kills my neocaridina shrimp, so I started using RO for my fry and shrimp and maintain the same pH for easier transitions when they're old enough to transition back to tap.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

But even a small amount of tap mixed with the RO kills fry as well, tried it with some tetra fry and lost all of them.

I'm really sorry for your losses, and I know that fish keepers in the USA have to contend with tap water that would be illegal in Europe, but I'm pretty sure Eric (@bekateen is right), and it isn't the pH change that is causing the problems.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

You would need to use another source to add some dGH/dKH.

If you don't mind a bit of variability "oyster shell chick grit" works or you can make a bespoke mix from potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) and magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O) details are at <"James's Planted Tank">.

cheers Darrel

[MissNoodle]

Hi all,

I wouldn't use the pH regulator if I didn't have to unfortunately.

My street did work on the pipes and something contaminated the water supply, crashed my pH down to 6.4 from 7.6 but it creeps back up to 7.6 after 7 days by next water change, fish can't handle water changes without dying from that. I lost a whole tank of fish when it first happened and didn't know.

So in order to keep my pH stable, I have to keep the pH from going all over the place. If my pH didn't jump by the time water changes are due, I wouldn't bother. But, it's very heartbreaking to lose a full tank of fish and don't want to do that again. I lost all but 3 pygmy cories. All of my microdevario kubotai, 15 pygmy cories... gone in a water change.
Another fish keeper a couple blocks down is having same problems raising fry as well, it's causing him problems too, though the city insists the water is unchanged. But using the test kits, we can say it has.

It works for my adult fish, but whatever is contaminating my water kills fry that previously thrived in my tap and kills my neocaridina shrimp, so I started using RO for my fry and shrimp and maintain the same pH for easier transitions when they're old enough to transition back to tap.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

But even a small amount of tap mixed with the RO kills fry as well, tried it with some tetra fry and lost all of them.

I'm really sorry for your losses, and I know that fish keepers in the USA have to contend with tap water that would be illegal in Europe, but I'm pretty sure Eric (@bekateen is right), and it isn't the pH change that is causing the problems.

I actually have somewhat soft water, GH 120ppm pH6.4-7.6 KH 89.5ppm.

You would need to use another source to add some dGH/dKH.

If you don't mind a bit of variability "oyster shell chick grit" works or you can make a bespoke mix from potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) and magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O) details are at <"James's Planted Tank">.

cheers Darrel

I use Seachem Equilibrium to boost GH with the RO water

[MissNoodle]

Spawn #5 last night

Spawn #4 only had one fertile egg, go figure. It hatched and it's with the slightly older bunch from Spawn #3 which have been doing good with no losses, all growing steady and eating very well.


I do agree there is something else with the water that contributed to the issue, something that isn't tested for, something that either coincided with the pH crash or caused the pH crash and I dont know what. Otherwise if it was just a pH problem, the fry would survive using the pH regulator in my tap and so would my shrimp, but alas even a small portion of tap wipes out all my fry within a week and kills my shrimp. And city doesn't care or know, so I won't get answers.

So I have no choice but to buy RO from the lfs, remineralize it with Equilibrium, and use the pH regulator on all my tanks to keep things stable for less stress on my adult fish.

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I use Seachem Equilibrium to boost GH with the RO water

That is fine for dGH.

Seachem won't tell you exactly what compounds are in "Equilibrium", but they are calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H20) and magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O). Details are at "UKAPS:Alternatives to Seachem Equilibrium".

I'd still like to add a minimal amount of carbonate hardness (dKH), via potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), it is cheap to buy as food grade and you would only need ~ 2 dKH.

and use the pH regulator on all my tanks to keep things stable for less stress on my adult fish.

I wouldn't get hung up on pH stability, the pH is never stable in soft water.

Because you keep planted tanks you would naturally changes in pH during the diurnal cycle as the ratios of oxygen (O2) and CO2 change during photosynthesis. This natural process is actually being stopped by the pH buffer.

cheers Darrel

[MissNoodle]

Spawn #6
First time it's been 2 spawns 2 days in a row.

[bekateen]

Again so soon? Terrific!

[fishguy1978]

Wow, that's awesome.

[MissNoodle]

High hatch rate these last 2 batches. Moved about 100 yesterday from the hatchery to the nursery, and today this is the ones that got moved. Still more eggs good left to hatch.

[fishguy1978]

High hatch rate these last 2 batches. Moved about 100 yesterday from the hatchery to the nursery, and today this is the ones that got moved. Still more eggs good left to hatch.
20210707_115429.jpg

Wow. That is so cool.

[MissNoodle]

Spawn lucky #7 was finally able to witness and document the actual spawning process

[bekateen]

Really cool!

[MissNoodle]

Time for my oldest guy to move to the parent tank

He or she has grown so well

[MissNoodle]

Hes so happy to join his parents!!

[bekateen]

Wow this is so cool!

[MissNoodle]

Hes been growing out in my corydoras eques tank until he was large enough to compete better for food with the larger adults, and he's done fantastic with them, but has been the only hoplo since his siblings all died. So seeing him back with some hoplos is a nice sight. He's following them around and seems extremely happy.


I have some younger fry in the nursery still, nice 1 inch young ones doing well. I've got homes lined up, provided that these guys keep on doing well.


Ive had also a couple more spawns. One of the spawns I gave the eggs to a local breeder to try to raise and see if they had similar struggles with survival rates--and yes, yes they did. None of theirs made it either.
They used methylene blue for the eggs, which did not stop the fungus either, and the ones that did hatch did not survive long either.

Seems they are not an easy species to raise, but some solace at least that it isn't only myself either.

But, as long as the parents are willing, I will keep trying. Let them do as they want lol

[fishguy1978]

Thanks for posting. It is always amazing to me to learn how unique each species is.

[MissNoodle]

Long time since updating...

I've had numerous more spawning from these guys but I've stopped pulling the eggs because the last ones that I had posted about, all except 2 of the fish never developed proper eyes! High number of culls, for whatever reason, so ethically I do not feel right saving the eggs with the high odds of deformed fish.

That said, the two healthy youngsters went to a home together and are living the good life in someone's 180g community and I get updates on them, they're doing fantastic.

I kept the blind culls, since they live just fine despite the undeveloped eyes. Been healthy otherwise, but not leaving my care as culls. They can live their lives as a big group together as pets.

Have a group of 8 total now and they're a riot. They're all in a 6 foot tank with a p. Pardalis and 3 goldfish and they do really well together.

Any eggs are left to be eaten, which the goldfish go nuts for lol

Some pictures of the blind youngsters now, about full grown

[bekateen]

Is their eye issue to blame for their dark pigmentation?

Cheers, Eric

[MissNoodle]

Is their eye issue to blame for their dark pigmentation?

Cheers, Eric

I am unsure of how much vision they really have, they don't seem responsive to a lot, but do seem to register some light and shadow, and I've got dark substrate so all of the fish are dark.

It's a mix of sand with some black gravel, but the goldfish constantly dig through it so the gravel is dropped on top of the sand in a lot of spots, except where the powerhead pushes the sand up in another spot

But the dark substrate and black paint on 3 sides of the tank darken the fish. Even the normal ones are dark

[sturiosoma]

Maybe some newly hatched brine shrimp, and chopped live black worm, Yum

Jeanne