Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members?

[Marc van Arc]

Ultimate rescue attempt - and something that I normally never do - : a huge water change (a bit more than 2/3, which is about 450 liters).
Fingers crossed.

[Martin S]

Ultimate rescue attempt - and something that I normally never do - : a huge water change (a bit more than 2/3, which is about 450 liters).
Fingers crossed.

How are things today Marc? Fingers crossed you get things back on track!

[Marc van Arc]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for your concern.
It's too early to say anything. The water change was less than 24 hours ago. Besides, I'm not going to fall into my own trap again. Murphy is always around -)
For what it's worth: no new victims so far.
I'll keep you posted, but I am going to wait a few days to see how things develop.

[Martin S]

OK, will be keeping my fingers crossed for a positive outcome.
Martin
ps a very merry Christmas to you and your family

[Marc van Arc]

a very merry Christmas to you and your family

Thanks, likewise.

[jodilynn]

Somehow or another I added them to the "My Cats" page becuase http://www.planetcatfish.com/Auchenipte ... oracoideus were one of the first fish I ever kept.

I did find some just a couple weeks ago at one of the LFS that usually has unusual fish, however they were label "Zamora Crunchi" cats and I didn't get them because I wasn't sure they were the "Midnight Sharks" from my youth.

I would love to get 3-4 and put them in my catfish tank.

[Marc van Arc]

Somehow or another I added them to the "My Cats" page becuase http://www.planetcatfish.com/Auchenipte ... oracoideus were one of the first fish I ever kept.
I did find some just a couple weeks ago at one of the LFS that usually has unusual fish, however they were label "Zamora Crunchi" cats and I didn't get them because I wasn't sure they were the "Midnight Sharks" from my youth. I would love to get 3-4 and put them in my catfish tank.

You can safely go and get them, because Zamora cunchi (no "r") is the Peruvian name for the species known as

Auchenipterichthys coracoideus

. The first time you may have bought them as Auchenipterichthys thoracatus and even today that name still pops up. However, the latter is a different species that we hardly ever get to see in the trade.
You are aware that gender is rather easily distinguished in auchenipterids? If not, have a look at the data sheet. I have been keeping 2 pairs since 2002 and they are very rewarding fishes.

[jodilynn]

I am going to ak the hubby to stop by that pet store tomorrow and pick me up a few as a belated Christmas present.

There are just certain fish I "have" to have as they bring back such fond memories of when I was a child and kept fish. The two I had were I believe a pair, as one was er, "robust" and the other I recall being slimer and smaller. They were kept in my very first 10 gallon tank.

I would like to get 3 individuals. Or is that too few? My son and I just set up a 40 gallon cube for his angelfish, would that be good to keep them in? It is heavily planted and has three large ornaments/decorations for them to hide in. Or my 55 gallon catfish tank that has synos, Raphaels, bristlenose, and loaches and a redtail shark? Lots of caves logs and plants and as a bonus it is dimly lit.

[Marc van Arc]

3 is fine, no problems.
It's not a matter of robust or not. As these fish have internal fertilization, the males have a device for doing so. The front of the anal fin is thickened to form a kind of, well, you know.
If you hover over the name link in my previous mail, the picture you get to see shows a male.
Of course smaller specimens do not yet have this gender difference; in that case it's going to be fingers crossed. 1 male and 2 females would do fine in your 40 gallon. The larger tank contains tankmates which are too tough, imo.

[jodilynn]

LOL um I had gotten those fish when I was about ten, before I knew anything about the "birds and the bees" sooo I don't remember too much about any uh, external differences .

That's good to know. I actually think I'd see them more in the 55 but I want them to be comfortable.

Now, if I can get the pet shop to er, sex them for me , I will happily do so! They had about 6-7 individuals crammed into two small pvc pipes (huge surprise there!).

[Marc van Arc]

Your 55 has some fishes I would not combine with auchenipterids. The Labeo becomes too agressive when large, the Raphaels are too spiny to share a hole/hiding place with and I don't know which Synos we're talking about. Mild/small species are okay, but larger species like featherfins may be too boisterous for the rather mellow Zamoras.
Also - despite many people here seem to like them a lot - I absolutely detest Ancistrus for their ridiculous - mostly chasing - behaviour. I have always found the combination of Ancistrus and auchenipterids one that doesn't work. It's like keeping auchenipterids with (most) cichlids; that also doesn't work ime.
I hope you will be able to get a trio. Enjoy them!

[Marc van Arc]

Ultimate rescue attempt - and something that I normally never do - : a huge water change (a bit more than 2/3, which is about 450 liters).
Fingers crossed.

How are things today Marc? Fingers crossed you get things back on track!

Ten days have passed since the water change and some things have changed.
Good: no more victims so far. Bad: some fishes are still struggling to stay alive. Most have indeed refound their balance, yet some still have no idea what they are actually doing, which results in swimming rather panically, bumping into things and damaged noses. Also some haven't eaten so far.

I have stopped wondering why both Auchenipterichthys species and Spinipterus are just fine, while Trachelyopterichthys and both Ageneiosus species are having such a hard time.
My (former) feeders (Guppys) and other non catfishes are doing great, just like the Hypoptopomas.
The knifefishes have all died before the water change.

So there's little more I can say atm. It's going to be a long term recovery, but as long as it is going to be a
recovery, it's fine with me. Still fingers crossed......

[kruseman]

All the best, Marc!

Here a picture of Tatia strigata in Octobre 2012 :


and the same animal ( a female) Decembre 2014. I noticed that the lines are fading a bit.


This female lays eggs from time to time. In 2015 I will try to raise some as the last effort doing so in 2014 failed completely.

[Marc van Arc]

Nice fish, Arjan. Perhaps you could show (with a ruler) that yours are a little longer than the current given length (1,3 inches SL) on the data sheet? According to Arjan his specimens are about 9 cms TL. That's a relevant difference imo.

[Marc van Arc]

some fishes are still struggling to stay alive. Most have indeed refound their balance, yet some still have no idea what they are actually doing, which results in swimming rather panically, bumping into things and damaged noses.

This is one fish I'm very worried about: the male

Ageneiosus sp(4)

It looks like this:

- and has been so for the past two weeks. I'm especially very worried about the way it curls up. It's is however able to lay straight for a while and also to swim, although the swimming is clumsy as you can see on the head (damaged nose). It sometimes tips over while resting, but that's not really unusual in auchenipterids. Also it has not eaten for two weeks, so I'm happy I've always fed plenty.
The female seems on the way back; this one still has a long way to go I'm afraid.
There's at least one

Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus

that behaves exactly alike.
I'm unable to see the

Ageneiosus atronasus

during the day and I will do as little as possible to disturb any fish atm, hence the algae on the picture.

[Martin S]

As you say Marc, good and bad news. But I like your optimism:

So there's little more I can say atm. It's going to be a long term recovery, but as long as it is going to be a
recovery, it's fine with me. Still fingers crossed......

It is hard to watch them suffer but equally they need to be given every opportunity to get better...I'll keep my fingers crossed for them too.

One a positive note, the three

Ageneiosus sp(3)

I added back in October are still alive - they cleared me out of all my cardinal and rummy nose tetras, and whilst they don't seem to be interested in anything else, still snap at passing Tetra Prima/flake/frozen foods and don't look skinny (though not as plump as I'd like) so I can't complain. I add live river shrimp as often as I can, which seem to annoy these fish by walking over/around them but am sure they must take them whilst hunting at night. Here's one taken just before Xmas:

Thanks
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

It is hard to watch them suffer but equally they need to be given every opportunity to get better...

Watching these fishes suffer is indeed hard and it seems to become harder every day. The thing that worries me a lot is that they don't eat - and haven't eaten for more than two weeks. Like I said, they were well fed, yet they are also going to need some food to aid to their recovery. As long as they keep on swimming during the night without eating anything, their energy will become lower and lower without being recharged. It's like a battery going flat, if you know what I mean.

the three

Ageneiosus sp(3)

cleared me out of all my cardinal and rummy nose tetras, and whilst they don't seem to be interested in anything else, still snap at passing Tetra Prima/flake/frozen foods and don't look skinny (though not as plump as I'd like) so I can't complain.

You shouldn't complain as the fish in the picture looks good. Don't expect your Ageneiosus to become chubby. This species can certainly feed, but their heads will always be their widest part, no matter how much you feed them.
It'll take some time for them to adapt, but they will learn to feed on flakes ime. Or - if you haven't tried already - how about frozen foods. Mine really liked bloodworms.

[Martin S]

Or - if you haven't tried already - how about frozen foods. Mine really liked bloodworms.

As with the Prima and flake, they do pick at passing bloodworm, but never seen them take lots. There are some live feeder fish (female guppies) in the tank but they are not interested in these at all!

[Marc van Arc]

There are some live feeder fish (female guppies) in the tank but they are not interested in these at all!

They will in due course, don't worry

[jodilynn]

Your 55 has some fishes I would not combine with auchenipterids. The Labeo becomes too agressive when large

Yes, from what I am reading this appears to be the case. I know I had one (or a Black or Rainbow shark) growing up but I don't remember it being nasty. I will keep an eye on it! Shame, it is a striking fish.

the Raphaels are too spiny to share a hole/hiding place with

They already banged up my very stubborn Synodontis Decoras who insists on mashing himself into *their* log. He got scraped up pretty bad and wound up with a nasty bacterial infection. Thankfully he recovered but I really have to keep an eye on him!

I don't know which Synos we're talking about. Mild/small secies are okay, but larger species like featherfins may be too boisterous for the rather mellow Zamoras.

Syndontis Eupterus, Alberti, Decoras, and hybrid_no.1. Between 5-7 inches long.

Also - despite many people here seem to like them a lot - I absolutely detest Ancistrus for their ridiculous - mostly chasing - behaviour. I have always found the combination of Ancistrus and auchenipterids one that doesn't work.

You know, now that you mention it... while my female"Lemondrop" doesn't seem to bother anyone, but my big male Albino Ancistrus seems to always shove himself into whatever cave my hybrid Syno is in, and if the Syno moves so does the Ancistrus. I also notice my juv. Green Dragon chases my Aspidora and my Cory from whatever food makes it to the bottom in their tank.

It's like keeping auchenipterids with (most) cichlids; that also doesn't work me.

Are either German Rams or Kribensis okay? The aforementioned Angels?

I hope things are improving in your tank. I feel terrible, we've all had situations where something just goes horribly awry and we lose fish we care about. I had my hybrid Syno come down with ich last year, and then some kind of bacterial infection overtook and killed ALL my angelfish, my ancient Clown Pleco I had gotten when my son was just a little dude, one of my corys and some of my danios. The Syno lived but the rest of the tank basically got wiped out .

[Marc van Arc]

There may not be a problem when combined with some of your Synos, but there are too many other "dangers" for Zamoras in your tank - as discussed. So as long as the 55 works (except for a stubborn Syno), just let it run without Zamoras to avoid extra, unwanted problems.

Combining them with Angel fish is fine, although the Angels may have to get used to the nightly cruising of the Zamoras. Angels of course want to rest at night; Zamoras won't. I used to have a combi of larger auchenipterids and large Peruvian Altum Angels and that worked sort of, because the larger auchenipterids bit the fins of the Angels - probably by mistake. I'm pretty sure Zamoras won't do this.

Combining Zamoras with Kribensis and/or Ramirezis is not such a good idea. Kribensis are fairly agressive, even when they do not have a nest as well as bottom orientated, which means they will encounter the sitting ducks called Zamoras (too) often. The same goes for the fragile looking Rams, although to a lesser extent when compared to Kribensis. Imo (and ime) most auchenipterids are very unable to defend themselves when (most) cichlids are involved.

Thanks for your wishing well on behalf of my fishes. There are still no victims, yet I'd like to see some mayor improvement. I guess I'm a bit impatient......

[Marc van Arc]

Update:

All non-auchenipterids are doing fine.

Ageneiosus sp(4)

: female seems to improve; male still in bad shape

Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus

: one female in very bad shape; three specimens improving; one specimen fine

Ageneiosus atronasus

: all seven seem to improve, although I only see them with lights out (= moonlight)

Spinipterus sp(1)

: doing great (although I'm unable to count all nine - will I ever?)

Auchenipterichthys coracoideus

: all four are doing fine

Auchenipterichthys punctatus

: all four are doing great

[Martin S]

That's good news Marc, lets hope the two doing badly can make it back to full health!

[Marc van Arc]

Update:

Ageneiosus sp(4)

: female seems to improve; male still in bad shape

Premature remark...... female swims, but doesn't eat, so it comes down to the fact that she's wearing herself out. Sometimes she gets startled (by what?) and swims like crazy until she drops on the sand. The rest of the time she sits in her usual spot, just hovering like she used to do in better days. The latter made me believe she was improving.
The male is an absolute goner; he hasn't eaten for so long that he has a hollow belly by now - and he has no interest in food at all.
Both fish have no further injuries (the male's nose has healed completely), colours fine, normal breathing, the lot.
It's a sorry sight seeing these fish "eating themselves up".

I also think there will be at least one victim in the T. taeniatus group sooner or later. This fish also has a story, because it was very likely one of the last fishes ever sold by Der FishProfi in Bottrop (Germany) and it survived the Great 2011 Wipe Out, being one of only four auchenipterids (out of about 30 fishes) that survived.
Not proud of that "feat" btw; the capitals are just there to remind me of my own stupidity.

To end with a positive note: despite being scattered apart upside down in java ferns (contrary to: hovering visibly in a group), I noticed that the Ageneiosus atronasus do indeed feed at night.

[jodilynn]

I'm very sorry to hear about your fish. There are few things more painful to a fishkeeper than watching an animal (even one as "lowly" as a fish) suffer. Like I mentioned before, I watched basically an entire tank of fish die last year. All my beautiful angels, my beloved "Crabby" who was on of the first tropical fish I ever bought for my son, some danios I had for several years, it was just awful . And I tried so hard to save them! Please know others understand your pain and can sympathasize with you. I don't think people realize how attached we become to these little creatures, how we learn and appreciate all their little quirks and habits, their beauty and their diversity, how much we are enraptured by these little worlds we create inside these walls of glass, and what an honor it is to take care of the inhabitants.

I wish you and your fish the best.

My son and I visited the petstore with the Zamoras, they hadn't sold one lol, so we came home with 3 (I talked him out of the Kribs and the Rams). I am going to call back there tomorrow, the young man that waited on me was very kind and patient and I do believe I have a male and two females. I think his bosses deserve to know how much I appreciate the time he took to pick out the exact fish I wanted.

They are officially the first "freeswimming" residents of my son's 40 gallon, even though they are currently just laying around (my hubby is like, uh, do you ever buy anything that MOVES? ). I have a Betta condo in there so there has been two Bettas in there for a few days. "Galaxy", a black Crowntail I found at a local retailer's fish department for $6, the LFS wants $25 for those, so I broke my own rules and bought him, and "Cosmo", an *almost* white veiltail, again the LFS wants $25 for white crowntails and I got Cosmo for...drumroll please, $4! ! I saved $40! $30 of which I blew on Zamoras (the hubby is never as impressed as I am with my er, "savings")! Checked the ammonia level all is well. I will dose with more Cycle tonight and probably do a small water change Saturday.

Hopefully "JarJar" (my male) and "Midnight" and "Amora" (my females) live long happy lives!

[KungFish]

If I end up having any room, I might end up getting some

spinipterus acsi

in my new 65 gallon.

[jodilynn]

Oooooh those are beautiful!

Honestly, these are the first Midnight cats I have seen in 30 years around here. So I have absolutely no hope of getting any different species .

[Marc van Arc]

My son and I visited the petstore with the Zamoras, they hadn't sold one lol, so we came home with 3.
They are officially the first "freeswimming" residents of my son's 40 gallon, even though they are currently just laying around.

I hope you enjoy them as much as I (still) do.
Wrt free swimming: they will eventually, but the tank must be dark before they start doing anything. You may want to use a moonlight tube (LED- lights), which allows you to see your fishes swim and feed in a dark environment. You have these LEDs in a red or blue colour and the auchenipterids are not bothered by this light.
Perhaps if your fish are still young, you may see them during lights on, but that behaviour vanishes once they get older.

Thanks again for your best wishes; I'll keep anyone intersted posted through the thread.

[Marc van Arc]

If I end up having any room, I might end up getting some

spinipterus acsi

in my new 65 gallon.

I admire your taste and who knows, maybe these fish may pop up one day.
Mine were listed as "Tatia novia spec. Guyana". You could ask your supplier if he/she has ever come across that name on an exporters list. Or perhaps exporters are aware of the official name by now(?).

[KungFish]

No need for them to pop up, I already have a chance to buy them