LDA67?

stang1 · Post by **stang1** » 17 Apr 2007, 14:43

My partner and I recently purchased a ne Pleco for our tank. He had sat in the shop for ages and none of the staff knew what he was. We brought him because he was a little unusual and we felt a little sorry for him.
He is a darker brown than in the photo and the markings are a creamy colour.
We trawled through this site trying to ID him and we think he's an LDA67. Any help in confirming or otherwise would be much appreciated.
Angie.

Post by **Silurus** » 20 Apr 2007, 06:52

I believe is a closer match.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Apr 2007, 14:11

What is the difference between P. maccus and LDA67?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Apr 2007, 14:27

Not sure if LDA67 and are different really [aside from capture location]. They are, from searching the forum, not easy to tell apart without capture location.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Apr 2007, 14:36

They are, from searching the forum, not easy to tell apart without capture location.

But the capture location is the same: Colombia.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 20 Apr 2007, 15:08

Ok, so LDA67 may well come from Colombia, and the fishes that are probably don't originate from Venezuela, but the official capture location both in DATZ Special and in the original description of P. maccus is Orinoco-basin, Venezuela.

However, a good point here is that L104 is found (according to DATZ) in the Amazonas drainage, whilst L162 is listed from Rio Orinoco.

So one would wonder if L104 is actually P. maccus, given the distribution. One would have to get the original description to find out if it covers Amazon as well as Orinoco. From looking at Fishbase, it seems to suggest "not so".

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Apr 2007, 15:44

However, a good point here is that L104 is found (according to DATZ) in the Amazonas drainage, whilst L162 is listed from Rio Orinoco.

Yes, for L104 DATZ says "Venezuela, Amazonas, near Puerto Ayacucho (?)"

However Puerto Ayacucho is on the Orinoco, not the Amazon.

Aqualog reports that L104 is P. maccus, and is from the Rio Las Marinas, Orinoco, Venezuela.

L162 looks like a quite distinctive Panaque that looks similar to L204.

LDA68 seems bulkier, with smaller eyes and spots on the tail (rather than stripes).

However, LDA67, L104 and P. maccus all look identical to me.

Perhaps Shane can shed some light on this?

Post by **Shane** » 21 Apr 2007, 09:51

P. maccus has a broad distribution throughout the Venezuelan and Colombian llanos. Most collected for the trade are captured near Villavicencio, Colombia (Rio Meta drainage) while the original description was based on specimens collected in Venezuela (Rio Portuguesa). As with any sp with such a broad distribution, there is a fair amount of variation between populations. However, in my opinion, not enough to classify then as separate spp or sub spp.

However, a good point here is that L104 is found (according to DATZ) in the Amazonas drainage, whilst L162 is listed from Rio Orinoco.

I see the confusion here. DATZ states "Venezuela, Amazonas, near Puerto Ayacucho." This is NOT the Amazon drainage. Amazonas, in this case, refers to the Venezuelan State named Amazonas, not the Amazon river basin.

Adding to the confusion is that the fish were not captured at Puerto Ayacucho. They are collected in the llanos and shipped upriver (Villavicencio) or down river (Puerto Carreno) for onward shipment through Bogota. This info probably came from a Colombian exporter who said, "I bought them in Puerto Ayacucho." Certainly true, but it is not where they were collected!

L 104, L 162, some of LDA 22 (LDA 22 pics in Aqualog show 3 distinct spp), some of LDA 67 (LDA 67 pics are of two distinct spp), should all look the same as they represent the same spp.

LDA 68 is a different spp of Panaque. They are collected in the llanos but are never separated from P. maccus as the collectors do not distinguish between fish that look so similar that they command the same price. Almost all shipments of P. maccus are a mixture of the two spp. With a little practice it is easy to tell the two apart.
-Shane

LDA 68 collected in the Colombian llanos (upper Rio Meta)

P. maccus collected not far from the holotype location in Venezuela (Rio Tinaco)

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 21 Apr 2007, 21:52

L 104, L 162, some of LDA 22 (LDA 22 pics in Aqualog show 3 distinct spp), some of LDA 67 (LDA 67 pics are of two distinct spp), should all look the same as they represent the same spp.

Shane, would you say all these variants are P. maccus?

Personally I can't see why stang1's fish is not P. maccus.

Post by **Shane** » 22 Apr 2007, 08:06

Shane, would you say all these variants are P. maccus?

To the extent that P. maccus makes up all or part of the L Number (as in the case of LDA 22 we are talking about three spp all assigned the same LDA Number).

stang1's fish is most likely P. maccus, but I would need a couple more pics to say for certain.

-Shane

stang1 · Post by **stang1** » 24 Apr 2007, 10:13

I'll try and get another couple of photos of him and post them as soon as I can.