Catfish for my Central american tank

velcrofly · Post by **velcrofly** » 11 Sep 2007, 16:46

Hi Everyone

Just registered Today

I recently set up a Central American Cichlid tank as Follows:-

Juwel 400L tank 151cm x 51 x 62
Fluval 405 External Filter

FISH

Blue Jack Dempsey
2x Firemouth
1 Breeding pair Convicts
1 Rainbow Cichlid
6 Black widow tetras

The tank has been up and running for about 2 months.

I want some advise on adding 1 or several catfish that would grow to a sufficient size to suit the other fish once they reach full adults also they would have to be able to cope with the aggresion from the cichlids. I would like to add fish from the same geographical location

Thanks in advance

Velcrofly X

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Sep 2007, 18:27

There aren't that many central american catfish, most of the ones you can find in shops are South American (or even further from Cetnral America).

I don't think they are easy to find, but would be from that area.

Since the suitable water for your fish is quite hard with high pH, you could also consider African Rift Lake - not from the same region, but suitable from a water conditions perspective (at least more so than many others).

--
Mats

velcrofly · Post by **velcrofly** » 17 Sep 2007, 12:39

Hi Mats
thanks for the reply

I bought 2 synodontis angelicus at the weekend

John

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 17 Sep 2007, 14:29

uh oh

a bit of research on your side would have shown that this will very likely be a big mistake

not that this species isn't cichlidresistant (it is), but 2 is a very bad number with most Syno's; especially with fiercely territorial species like the angelicus!

you can keep 1; or you can keep a group. but 2 almost always result in 1 big bully and 1 torn up wasted victim......

also: this is NOT a Riftlake species. the fact that the angelicus can cope with the waterparameters in Malawi- or Central American tanks only shows how tough it is, not that it's coming from a region with fairly soft and slightly acidic water.

a group of subadult petricola's, a single granulosus or some multipuncs might have been a better choice.

btw there are too many territorial cichlidspecies in there. if the Jacks start breeding (or is there only 1 Jack?), the rest is in serious trouble.

velcrofly · Post by **velcrofly** » 17 Sep 2007, 19:39

Ho Great

When you ask for advice nobody replies, I go out and buy the fish and suddenly I get repies!!

I bought the fish from Pier aquatics in wigan(there is an article about the shop on this site) I spoke to them on the phone and explained what tank I had including what fish I also had and these are the fish they recommended. They specialize in catfish so i expected the advice to be good advice

would you suggest I take one back?

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 17 Sep 2007, 21:15

velcrofly wrote:would you suggest I take one back?

I don't know what they cost, but you may consider the option of adding one.
Even in a (tiny) group of three the intra specific aggression has a much better chance to spread itself, which will prevent the "one bully, one victim" situation.
If you decide to do so, see to it that the new fish is about the same length as the ones you already have.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 17 Sep 2007, 21:16

The reason you didn't get many replies is that your question is a very open question - meaning that it's very difficult to answer your original question.

As to your current situation, you should either get one or two more fish - that way, the smaller/less dominant fish will have "friends" that also get bullied, rather than all the agression from the dominant fish ending on a single less dominant fish.

Or give one of them back, as that's what you'll end up with in the end anyways, most likely.

Unfortunately, even the best shops will sometimes make mistakes or have staff that don't know everything about a particular species - Sidguppy has kept many different species of Synodontis and most of what he says has come from experience in keeping these fish - he's, in my personal opinion, one of the best experts on this genus that we have on this forum. That also places him higher than most shop-staff and shop-owners in the world. Shop-staff and shop-owners know lots of different things about many different types of fish, but it's quite hard to know details about all the different species that are out there.

There is probably around 20 species of Synodontis that are more or less regularly traded, along with several hundred other catfish, as well as thousands of other species of fish. This can make it hard to remember exactly which ones are good and bad in which way.

--
Mats

velcrofly · Post by **velcrofly** » 18 Sep 2007, 07:54

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I think I will take one back to the shop as I dont really want to overpopulate the tank with more catfish. FYI my LFS has one of these for £30. Pier aquatics is selling them for £10.50, by all accounts this seems to be a bargain

Thanks

John

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 18 Sep 2007, 10:37

at 10 pounds (15€) a fish, Piers is selling them for a very nice price indeed.

but check the pictures and the many threads on Synodontis hybrids as well. unfortunately there are also hybrid "angelicus" for sale as well; most often angelicus x schoutedeni and angelicus x eupterus (educated guesswork, mind

).

in the "old days" angelicus were extremely pricey! I remember pricetags back then that would buy you a fully grown S granulosus these days. the last couple of years they've gotten a lot cheaper. I remember buying a 7" subadult for less than 20E and similar sized fishes for similar prices in Germany.

most people want the cute lil 3" purple beauty with the polkadots and return them when they turn into this boisterous very nocturnal tankbusting monster. shame, really, cause with proper feeding and care and adult angelicus is sight to behold.

with patience (they can be shy to the extreme) you can even 'tame' it. big Syno's can be tought to handfeed wich is great.
if I ever manage to use a vidcam (I'm really stupid with those gizmo's) I can show you what that looks like....

velcrofly · Post by **velcrofly** » 18 Sep 2007, 18:12

Looking at the fish and the pictures on this site of syno angelicus Im quite sure they are genuine articles.

I would love to be able to handfeed them. Is this something that all syno's can be taught to do? do they have to be adult before they will do this? How many years will it take for the syno to be fully grown? and can you recommend a particular type of food and best time to feed.

I put in sinking pellets at the moment but they seem to get eaten by the cichlids when they are grazing

thanks

John

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 19 Sep 2007, 16:40

The only syno I have ever got to hand-feed is , and of the two I had, only the larger one would do it. It took a long time for it to get up the courage. The food it liked best was bite-sized pieces of prawn.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 19 Sep 2007, 19:28

I wouldn't try it with shy species like flavitaeniatus, nigriventris, contractus and the like.

but I once had a schall wich was boisterous (not to say bullying) to the extreme.
fish like these have far less fear in them; they make excellent handfeeders.

I got 5 granulosus and all are tame, although the mediumsized female is still a bit shy; the big one and the small one are downright curious.

I've handfed petricola's, lucipinnis and with some difficulties the occasional polli.

I've the experience that the more nocturnal species are much more trickier than the diurnal species. so for example petricola's are much easier than polli.

I feed mine anything.....although real foodstuff that comes in big lumps is the best for handfeeding.
for example granules or flakefoods scatter quickly. and the Syno's ain't going for the hand when they can get it all over the tank. but treats like shrimp, smelt, crabmeat, the famous shrimp-mix, peas, a bunch of halfthawed mysis, earthworms etc: that's the stuff that could work! it does here.

another tip: do NOT feed such stuff every day! not only is it too much for every day feeds, but fish are smarter than you think: if they get that every day, they'll just wait intul it drops in the tank.
a 'treat' is something that isn't fed on a regular base.

in a surprisingly short time they will even recognize your 'posture' that you assume when starting a handfeed; it's different from just tossing flake in the tank. yes, they will show up beforehand!

that Pavlov was a smart dude. if he would have been a fishkeeper, it's likely some kind of catfish would have been the hero of his research instead of a dog.

because this trick sure works on other cats. long ago I even got a trio Auchenipterids crazy enough to eat out of my hand....talk about shy fish! loads of catfishes can be trained. big Pims, plecs, Common Ancistrus, Syno's, Ameiurus, Ictalurus, Cory's, Hoplo's (dead easy, those!), Auchenoglanis occidentalis (another very tameable one), Pterodoras granulosus.....

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 20 Sep 2007, 16:28

You can even hand-tame , if you don't mind a bit of pain from having your fingers bitten. It's like feeding a wolf.