Channel Cat Flashing=Parasites?

[love_abomination]

Hello!
So I established that my Channel Catfish, Moxie, has worms.
And since I last posted, I've been treating the tank with a combination of Tea Tree Oil (Melafix) and Maracide, and cranked the water temp up to 82F, I've been adding salt, and removed all the gravel and most of the decor.
Well, actually, I only got in two days of Maracide before switching to Maracide Concentrate because the store ran out of Maracide (for whatever reason, they each have different ingredients and dosing).
Anyway, I did days 1 and 3 of Maracide, and on day 5, I switched to the concentrate, and completed one course of treatment with that yesterday. I went ahead and treated the water today as well, since as of yesterday, I was still finding free-swimming worms in the water, and Moxie was still flashing, and I've seen her do it today as well.
I'm not going to be able to do more than another 4 days of the Maracide treatment, because the label says not to do more than that.

So I'm curious, does Moxie have the SuperAids of worms, or does not an exclusive symptom of parasites/irritation?

And to be clear, when I say flashing, I mean when she darts across the tank and briefly smacks/rubs her side on the gravel/bottom of the tank. I've heard other people talk about this, and it's always been said that it means parasites. But after like, 10 days of pretty serious treatment, for her to STILL be flashing is well, not good, right? Her wounds were healed completely up by day 3 though.

Thanks for the help and explanation!

[MatsP]

What's your ammonia levels? Even low levels of ammonia can be irritating the fish.

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Mats

[love_abomination]

I didn't think to test for it since I've been doing small water changes (about 10 gallons) every few days to make sure the copper wouldn't accumalate....but the ammonia levels are shamefully high. I suppose once I get them back down to zero, and if she stops doing it, i'll be in the clear, right?

[MatsP]

I didn't think to test for it since I've been doing small water changes (about 10 gallons) every few days to make sure the copper wouldn't accumalate....but the ammonia levels are shamefully high. I suppose once I get them back down to zero, and if she stops doing it, i'll be in the clear, right?

Zero ammonia is essential (or even critical) to good care of the fish (whatever fish it is - none of them will want ammonia in the water).

What size tank is it, and what size is the fish, and what sort of filtration do you have? Was the tank cycled [filter bacteria culture established] before the fish went in the tank?

And for now: No feeding until ammonia levels are stable at zero for a few days in a row.

--
Mats

[love_abomination]

It's a 75 gallon freshwater tank, hosting:
-(1) 13" channel catfish
-(2) 5" senegal bichirs
-(1) 6" rhino pleco
-(1) 3" lavender gourami
-(1) 5" snakeskin gourami
-(1) 4" red-bellied pacu
It is filtered by a Marineland C-360 Canister Filter, and the tank has been established for quite a long time. (and for the record, I'm aware they won't be able to be housed in that tank for much longer, I'm prowling the market for a 150 gallon if possible, or will otherwise just set up the pool I already have for my adult monsters)
Levels are typically at zero, with the ph being around 7.0-7.4, but my LFS said as long as ammonia didn't go beyond 0.25ppm between water changes, it's fine.
I did a shot of Kordon Amquel+, and a water change the next day, treating the fresh water with more Amquel+, and that got the levels back down to zero, and they are currently still zero.

Considering Moxie gets anxious without being fed, I've reduced the tank's feeding from 3 times a day to only 1 (3 -small- meals of varying foods each time to make sure they get a broad spectrum of nutrients) until treatment is done, as the 3x a day routine has never previously caused ammonia problems, I was merely saying with more than once weekly changes, I didn't see how ammonia could possibly be a problem, and still don't know how it spiked as it did, as the only thing to change is the removal of gravel and water treatment.

So with ammonia at zero, day 2 of the second 5 day Maracide Concentrate treatment, and Moxie (the catfish) still flashing (she had a pretty serious bout of it earlier, more so than I've ever previously seen), I need to know if this can only be caused by parasite, or if it's random, or mating behavior, or anything else.

[MatsP]

You do have a fair number of large fishes in what is realistically a too small tank - it's not overstocked on the 1"/gal rule, but since the fishes are large, they will produce more waste than 41" of small fishes.

Ammonia really means that your filter system is not coping (or lost it's bacteria, but if the ammonia does go down, it's likely that it's mainly not coping).

What is your pH, KH and GH values? It is also possible that if you have soft water that the tank gets a pH crash - which causes the bacteria in the filter to stop working.

--
Mats

[ChristianJarencio]

You do get amazing results with Anvarol and have a fair number of large fishes in what is realistically a too small tank - it's not overstocked on the 1"/gal rule, but since the fishes are large, they will produce more waste than 41" of small fishes.

Ammonia really means that your filter system is not coping (or lost it's bacteria, but if the ammonia does go down, it's likely that it's mainly not coping).

What is your pH, KH and GH values? It is also possible that if you have soft water that the tank gets a pH crash - which causes the bacteria in the filter to stop working.

--
Mats

How would you go about getting your ammonia levels up to what's right? It must be quite hard to measure.

[MatsP]

How would you go about getting your ammonia levels up to what's right? It must be quite hard to measure.

Ammonia should be near zero, and whilst low levels are hard to measure, there are test-kits for aquarium use that is sufficiently precise to give you a good idea.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

@ Mats: is 0-to-0.25ppm considered near 0 by you?

@L.-A.: what's the active ingredient(s) in Kordon Amquel+ and what does it do? This brand name is meaningless to me. What worms do you see floating? Are they dead or alive? With so many fish in the tank, why do you think only Moxie carries worms? Why did she have wounds?

Also, Channels may not be able to handle 82F, not for long anyway - they are NOT tropical fish. As a more southern species, blue channels can (from experience), but I think not channels (from experience).

when I had high NH3, like 2 ppm, my channels never flashed (I have 3, 25", 27", and 14"). Usually, they do it quite rarely and I have not noticed any correlation. Never dealt with worms, I think.

Could you have forgotten maybe to dechlorinate your water during one of the water changes? That will partially kill good bacteria. With so many changes, it becomes more possible to miss once.

How would you go about getting your ammonia levels up to what's right? It must be quite hard to measure.

did you mean down??

@all: can Maracide cause partial die-outs of beneficial bacteria? What's the active ingredient? Never worked with it but worked with metronidazole and praziquantel - these are my main "de-parasiters".

[MatsP]

Bearing in mind that the original post was in august 2009, I think it's pretty pointless to ask for further details from the original poster - we can probably assume it's not a problem (either because it's fixed, or the fish is no longer...)

There are test-kits that give a clearer result than "less than 0.25ppm", so you may want to look at the instructions for the kit and see how low it goes - there are even some nitrate test for marine tanks that show really low nitrate levels, if you feel that way inclined.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

Mats, perhaps you are right but having read the whole thread rather carefully from the start, I only see info of the recent events, hence my questions. E.g., her wounds healed on the 3rd day of Maracide treatment, which is being currently administered, as I understood it. So are the worms, currently swimming in L.-A.'s tank, again, if I am not mistaken.

[Viktor Jarikov]

A_A_Ah, silly me, yes, I read the text carefully, not paying any attention to the dates. Mats, you win! Thanx!

[Viktor Jarikov]

How would you go about getting your ammonia levels up to what's right? It must be quite hard to measure.

Christian, I wish you had promptly indicated that you are continuing your post ~1 year later, for the hasteful-wasteful people like me, it would help!

The question about UP in place of down still stands.