Plecos in a planted tank?

[pest control]

hi, i have a 4ft community tank, it measures 120cm x 40cm x 45cm, and holds 216l. i am currently heavily planting it. but i also would love to have a few plecs in it. is that possible without them eating the plants? i currently have 3 otocinclus sp. which i have had for a year or so, but i would like some bigger, more colourful plecs. the temp is 24c, and i am increasing the flow in the tank with a koralia in the near future. the current fish in the tank are: 20 Trigonostigma hengeli, 5 SAE'S, 3 otocinclus, 5 normal harlequins, 4 serpae tetras, 8 cherry barbs, 5 cardinal tetras, 4 rummy nose tetras and 4 kribs. however, i am selling the kribs, as they are getting too aggressive, and i will be adding a shoal of corydoras trilineatus and possibly some rcs. i can feed courgette, potato, peas and many other veggies regularly. so, are there any reasonably priced plecs, preferably more colourful then the ottos at about 52 or less, suitable for a heavily planted tank with small fish and shrimp, and would they breed?

cheers

[Richard B]

Was there something particular you fancied?

There are probably a lot of species that would be ok - & lots of plecos prefer other things than plants & veggies - like the hypancistrus species which prefer 'meatier' foods - however some of these can be a bit more expensive than people expect. Generally people set up species tanks for these to breed them which requires a bit of effort & dedication.

Availability plays a part too as some nice species are available but you may have to travel - particularly if cost is a factor.

What about something like

Dekeyseria sp(l052)

?

Did you specifically want to breed something or are looks more important?

[MatsP]

There are quoite a few plecos that are OK with plants - generally they only eat plants when they aren't fed properly/enough. You can use the Search function in the Cat-eLog to find fishes that match your size and temp for the setup (I'd say go for those that do not grow too large, perhaps up to 4"/10cm - large plecos tend to make their own paths across/through plantations in planted tank - a bit like having a bulldozer in the tank).

Richards suggestion is good if you have some unplanted sandy areas in the tank - they like to sit on the sand. This applies to almost all "proper" plecos for that matter - they don't like to be in the midst of a under-water jungle.

You could also look at for example

Sturisoma

- they do quite well in planted tanks, and do not sit much on the substrate, so no need for "clear patches".

--
Mats

[pest control]

hi, there wasn't really a particular species that i had in mind. i do have an open sandy foreground, so that wouldn't be a problem. you say some prefer meatier foods; would that include my tiny fish/shrimp? i would really like to breed them if possible, but i think looks are also important. by looks, i don't really mean bright colours,(although i do like bright fish), but i also like interesting looking/acting fish. i'll have a look on the cat-elog. any other suggestions?

cheers

[MatsP]

I'm aware of some plecos that eat snails and insect larvae, but I'm not aware of any that predate on fish - most will eat fish that are dead/dying, but that applies to almost all fish anyways... Shrimp should be fine too - they are pretty quick when they fancy it.

--
Mats

[pest control]

thanks, i'll have a look for some suitable species then.

[MatsP]

(Ab)using the moderator powers, I figure Beverley is near Hull, and I'm sure there are some nice shops closer, but you are 105 miles away from Wigan and Pier Aquatics. They have/had

Hypancistrus debilittera

at £10.50 each. Your tank temp is in the lower range of acceptable for this species, so I would raise the temp a couple of degrees for the first few weeks. They aren't the MOST colourful species.

You may also want to look at

Peckoltia

or

Panaque

- the latter requires wood and excellent mechanical filtration due to the amount of "sawdust" they produce.

--
Mats

[pest control]

hi, i can't go that far for fish i'm afraid. i have a local maidenhead aquatics, which stock quite a lot of plecs, but i'm not sure which species. they normally have whiptail catfish, and i like them. what do you think about them? if i did get some of them, how many should i get if i am attempting to breed them, and what male/female ratio? but if i couldn't breed them very easily, are there any other easier to breed species?

thanks

[MatsP]

Whiptail covers just about all of the Loricarinae subfaimily, which makes it a bit difficult to give a definite answer, but if they are

Sturisoma

then you'd be looking at two - assuming they are mature enough to sex. But they can be kept in larger groups with no ill effects. Commonly available whiptails also include

Rineloricaria

, but there are quite a few other species that are less common but still occurs from time to time. In Pier Aquatics they had

Spatuloricaria

at about 35cm/15" - price was £95, which I don't think is bad for an unusual and large specimen like that. Never seen them before [at least not that I can recall - I am getting old and memory isn't as good as it used to be].

And just to give you an idea of how good Pier is, I traveled 224 miles one way (not counting detours to pick up passengers) to get fish from there on Christmas Bank Holiday Monday. They have Dekeyseria L052 too at £12.50 each - which is a good price. But I know most people aren't as mad as me... ;)

--
Mats

[pest control]

hi, they look more like the sturisoma, what sort of price do you think they will be at a couple of inches long?
i don't really want to spend any more than a tenner each for a pair, as my budget is a bit low at the minute.

thanks

[MatsP]

At a couple of inches, I'd expect the shop to charge something around £5-10 - it's a little bit dependent on the actual size, what exactly they are, e.g

Sturisoma aureum

is fairly common and easy to breed, so will be less expensive than other species.

Note also that Sturisoma are generally difficult to ID, especially when small, and it's not unusual for them to be sold under any number of species names - including ones that are not really valid or actually available in the trade.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

In order to minimise costs perhaps someone could collect some fish from a lfs or private breeder & then deliver them to you.

Some fish costs are vastly different from store to store - little sturisoma for example 2" body length - i've seen these from 7.50 to 25 quid (not labelled as any particular species, just regular sturisoma)

(Mats - have you got any left BTW)

[Stuey]

Hi there,

Just another wee note as an addition to MatsP's reference to Pier Aquatics.

I went just before Christmas to pick up some Sturisoma. They were huge wild caught fish, wonderful, with the male showing a fully developed set of cheek bristles.

They aslo had some whiptails in though I forget which species. On my previous visit I picked up 6 red lizard whiptails which are real stunners.

Keep up the fantastic work Neil and staff

Cheers
Stuey

[MatsP]

In order to minimise costs perhaps someone could collect some fish from a lfs or private breeder & then deliver them to you.

Some fish costs are vastly different from store to store - little sturisoma for example 2" body length - i've seen these from 7.50 to 25 quid (not labelled as any particular species, just regular sturisoma)

(Mats - have you got any left BTW)

I have a few - not sure if I have sexable size of both kinds - I know I have a fully grown male if anyone wants one (currently living on it's own in the L128 breeding tank, after I caught it by accident along with some young Corydoras metae). I may be able to find a juvenile female, but I don't promise anything unless someone actually want one.

Roo's group of three that I sold some time ago has recently spawned... I think she has two males and one female...

And yes, prices of these fish can vary quite dramatically - as with many types of fish that aren't so common that EVERY shop has them...

--
Mats

[pest control]

hi, i'll have a look at the prices at my local maidenhead aquatics. but are there any other plecs that would be ok in my tank? and could i keep more than one species, or would it be best to get a bigger number of one species?

cheers

[MatsP]

The more I look at it, the more I'm of the opinion that most fish are best kept in groups - and plecos, although they don't necessarily need to be in groups still appear to be more happy in a larger group.

There are certainly several dozen fish that would work fine.

I arbitrarily choose a size range of 75-130 mm (approx 3-5"), and entered 24 degrees in the Cat-eLog search (http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/search.php). It comes up with this list - that's 67 different species to choose from.

And of course, that doesn't include many of the Sturisoma, Farlowella and such that grow beyond 130mm - or any other plecos that may grow larger or those don't grow as large as 75mm. There are a total of around 700 plecos in the Cat-eLog - there are a few hundred more [at least] in nature still - just not ones that are seen in the trade very often, if at all.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

Mats - i was just enquiring if you wanted to get rid of them as before (cash for fish) so to speak

[MatsP]

Mats - i was just enquiring if you wanted to get rid of them as before (cash for fish) so to speak

Sure, I will give Sturisoma in return for cash - big ones above 4" I guess I want £5 or so, and small ones (2-3") I'll get take £2 for. I haven't got many tho'.

--
Mats

[bronzefry]

Just to throw in my 2 pennies, it's not always the eating of the plants. Sometimes they uproot plants. If a species is boisterous during breeding, anything and everything will be uprooted. I'm thinking of Peckoltia spp. such as L-387. Also, some Hypancistrus sp., such as L-201. I've never had an Ancistrus sp.(the more common one) uproot or eat any plants. Also, Otocinclus spp. are fantastic in planted tanks. Rineloricaria spp. are nice. I have a planted tank in a sunny window. No green water, nothing on the glass and the plants look fine. My experience with Farlowella spp. would have you proceed with caution in the planted tank. They will do such a nice job, they kill the plants, even Java Ferns. My Java Ferns are currently sprouting holes. The juveniles are constantly at the leaves, 24 hours a day. I thought the Java Ferns would be safe. They were, until the fry came along.
Amanda

[pest control]

thanks, i'll have a look at those.

[Richard B]

thanks, i'll have a look at those.

Just a tiny word of caution that some of those might be a bit expensive

[pest control]

hi, i like the Gold Stripe Panaque, L169, but it says that they eat wood. to what extent is that? i have a huge piece of bogwood in the tank, that cost £40, and i don't want it to get eaten. also, how many could i get, are they expensive, and would they breed? could i keep them with the Sturisoma aureum, and if so, how may of each species could i keep? and would they be ok with corries and red cherry shrimp?

thanks

[MatsP]

If we go by the rule of 1cm fish per 2 liter, you can keep 108 cm of fish. 20 T. hengeli makes 60 cm. Siamese algae eaters, reaches about betwen 10 and 15 cm each, so that makes between 50 to 75 cm - you are now either just above, or quite a bit above. And I only got to the second species in your list of 9 species - yes, you are selling your kribensis, but it looks like you are quite well stocked already.

--
Mats

[pest control]

so, are you saying that i can't get any more fish?

[MatsP]

so, are you saying that i can't get any more fish?

Yes, unless you get rid of a good number of the current fish - or get a bigger tank.

--
Mats

[pest control]

i can't get a bigger tank, but my final intended stocking is: 20 Trigonostigma hengeli, 5 SAE's, 3 otocinclus, 2 bolivian rams, 10 corydoras trilineatus and 10 serpae tetras. plus the plecs if possible. would that be ok?

cheers

[Richard B]

I make it that your current stocking is quite a bit over & your intended stocking without a pleco is still over - i am also presuming that SAE is siamese algae eater???

[MatsP]

Well, as I said, I went through the first TWO on that list, and got to "just over to quite a bit over" depending on how we judge the max size of Siamese algae eaters. They grow reasonably large, for sure. 10 medium sized corydoras will take up about 40-50 cm too.

I know that counting centimeters/inches isn't the best way to judge stocking, but when you have more than 1.5 times the "recommended level", I'd say it's quite clear to say "do not add more fish".

You can get away with a bit of overstocking by changing more water, but there is a limit.

Especially as many of the exotic plecos are not exactly the cheapest fish, and a bit too much pollution in the tank may cause problems to that fish.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

Mats' last point is crucial - at the first sign of trouble, bottom dwelling fancy plecos suffer before anything else.

(Awh crap - i have got pasta sauce all down the front of my hoodie )

[pest control]

well, that's a bummer. i'll just stick with the fish i've got. i've had more fish in the past with no problems. it's just that my tank looks practically empty.