Sexing Dwarf Clown Plec's

[stuart264]

Could anyone give me an idiots guide to sexing the 2 dwarf clown plec's I have?

[apistomaster]

They need to be mature fish to begin to even guess at their sex. Odontodal growth is an indication but is most helpful when the fish are already in breeding condition.
I would recommend buying a larger group of 6 to 8 then raise them to adult sizes. I use the "view from above' method to sex my plecos the most. The females tend to be broader between the pectoral fins which gives them a slight bulge in plan view. Males tend to have an even, "V" shaped plan view.
Panaque maccus are a "chubby" species in general so that may make my method less effective than it is with the Peckoltia and Hypancistrus species I raise but you can never go wrong if you work with a large enough group. Eventually using a variety of clues you will be able to remove any excess males so you get down to a male to female ratio of 1:2 or 1:3.
Panaque maccus are among the least expensive of all the imported wild plecos so buying a larger group is not that expensive and will greatly improve your chances. Although I do not consider Panaque maccus to be among the easiest of species to breed despite their relatively small size.

[MatsP]

For mature fish, it's actually VERY easy to sex them. Males have very hairy back body.

Here's a picture of my male:


Females do not have this.

Both males and females, as Larry says, can be quite "round", although in my experience, females are even more fat - but that's only useful if you have a bunch to select from (and again, only if they are quite mature).


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Mats

[apistomaster]

I approached this as if I had to select from newly imported fish, not in the best of condition and possibly immature. Then sexing P. maccus can be difficult. If the fish are just the opposite then the task is not difficult. I see mostly immature specimens offered for sale and that is why I begin from that assumption. P. maccus also seem to take quite awhile to reach maturity if you begin with immature fish so it may be awhile before the males develop their obvious odontodes. The absence of odontodes is not diagnostic of females among some groups of fish but the presence of well developed odontodes makes the determination of those males easy.
I believe you have had your P. maccus for several years, Mats, but I don't know what age and condition Stuart's two fish are in.
As always, it is helpful if clear photos of the fish in question are posted rather than by asking the "how do I sex these fish" question in a general way. The information quality received depends on the quality and quantity of information given to those on the outside looking in.

[MatsP]

Larry,

It was not my intention to contradict you, although I can see how that could be seen as what I was trying to do - they are indeed often hard to sex when they are in the shop. I did buy the male in good condition (clearly showing odontodes, although a bit skinnier), but I think it was a "return" in the shop (or just a single left-over left behind in a different tank than the others - this happens from time to time too).

Quite often, the fish you get for P. maccus in the shops are also far too small/young, which makes it even harder.

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Mats

[apistomaster]

Hi Mats,

I merely wanted to clarify why I consider P. maccus difficult to sex when buying newly imported specimens which may not even be mature fish.
No real misunderstanding between the two of us. I know you made breeding them a project and had mature specimens which were easy for you to sex but for the OP and others just starting out with new imports the picture is not initially so clear. I gave breeding them a half hearted attempt and a much more intense effort to breed Panaque sp L204, commonly called "Flash Plecos" in the States, spanning several years but they seem to be more difficult to breed for me than the Peckoltia and Hypancistrus species. I shared my take on the level of difficulty to breed P. maccus for what its worth. My hat is off to all of those who have pulled breeding them off but some fish aren't meant for me. Like I seem to have a wet thumb or at least a damp one with wild Discus which are all I bred when I first tackled Discus yet others find them very difficult. I bred wild Discus long before I was able to breed a large number of White Clouds and only then after many attempts. That's just how things go for me. White Clouds are supposed to be among the best beginner's species of egg layers to breed. I quit trying to make sense of this sort of thing a long time ago.

[MatsP]

I do indeed have a breeding project, and I have had eggs on the odd occassion, but no fry. I'm letting them "get on with it", without much effort from me. Right now they are in the "RO waste water" system, so they may benefit from a move to a soft water tank-system, but I'm short of space there. They are definitely not easy to breed - in my opinion, at least.

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Mats