Very new to Forum's and am hoping for help

[MarcW]

If you want reassurance that it's eating I would keep trying the zucinni, the scrape marks on the skin are very obvious. There are some pictures of them in the thread I linked to with the infrared camera. Long term it doesn't provide much nutrition though, the Repashy is best for that, it's the main diet for all of my catfish. A meatier treat every so often will be fine though.

[LauraG]

So, do you primarily feed the super green and soilent green, and add in the fruut luups and bottom scratcher occasionally? That would be more veggie, but still some protein? By the way, your other post was extremely helpful, especially to see the activity at night, how are those guys doing?

[MChambers]

You can find most, if not all of the fish focused Repashy foods here: http://www.swisstropicals.com/food-brand/repashy/.

Minor clarification: I’m pretty sure Fruut Luups are only available at Swiss Tropicals. I think Stephan Tanner worked with Alan Repashy to develop that formulation. I’ve used it and think it’s very good. I also favor Grub Pie.

[LauraG]

Than you Marc, I guess they way I should have phrased it: is there a way to tell if I am feeding too much protein? On the swiss tropicals site, I couldn't always tell the ingredients, so was not positive if they were more plant or protein, other than the super green, which contains no animal products. The repashy foods all seem very high quality, and I think they will be great eventually. Right now the only foods I have seen him interested in were a couple shrimp pellets, and live black worms that I got under his hiding place.
The LFS had him for a while, and said they were feeding Hikari veggie rounds, so I bought a small package for the transition, but the main ingredients are fish meal and wheat flour. The rest of the ingredients weren't that great either, so I have been giving him a variety of stuff, hoping he will start off on something, so I can transition to the better foods. If I am taking the wrong approach, I can certainly make adjustments.

He has seemed very lively over the last couple days, so I took the divider out today, and he got visited by the other fish in the tank. That seemed to be somewhat stressful, so I shut off al the lights and fed the other fish at the far end of the tank, and dropped an omega one, and a hikari veggie round under his hiding root. He also has a piece of sweet potato, if he wants it.

[Lycosid]

Right now the only foods I have seen him interested in were a couple shrimp pellets, and live black worms that I got under his hiding place.

A lot of animals (humans included) like their "sometimes foods" more than their regular foods. Often "mostly vegetarian" means "eats meats when it can, but mostly can't get it, so don't change that balance much".

My bristlenose, twig catfish, and otos all took about three days to decide that their vegetables were food, although the otos will now shred microwaved kale like piranhas in a bad movie. However, when I drop anything with a bit of animal protein into the tank the bristlenose shows more interest than anything that's straight-up vegetable.

I tried about five things for my catfish before I found what they actually ate, and in some cases they eat only specific parts of my vegetable table scraps. (They'll bite all the florets off broccoli and leave the stalks alone.)

It sounds to me like you're out of the woods, although you may need to keep working to get your fish eating a balanced diet.

[LauraG]

Thanks, we will see how the next few days goes, I have some of the Fruut Luups and Bottom Scratcher, and will also keep occasionally trying those as well, but the rest of my fish seem to like them too, so maybe I need to feed in a few locations, and hope for the best. If I can get interest in those, I'd also like to try the super green, maybe he will be the only one interested, but most likely the Simese Algea Eaters will also like that one.

[MarcW]

I think you'll be fine using Fruut Luups and bottom scratcher for now, along with a bit of vegetable, and some pellets occasionally.

I would use the Fruut Luups as a standard diet as it is less meaty than the bottom scratcher. Or as an alternative you can mix them together, maybe 80% Fruut Luups and 20% bottom scratcher.

They will get some animal protein in nature, while they are scraping the surface of rocks or wood they will consume small crustaceans, as well as sponges, you might hear this referred to as aufwuchs, a German word which roughly means the growth of plants and small creatures on various surfaces.

Sounds like it's doing ok and settling in.

My fish in the other post are doing well thanks, they are getting bigger stomachs and seem settled. I don't see a lot of them as they seem to be very nocturnal. I'm hoping once they have grown a bit I might get a spawn from them.

[LauraG]

Thanks Marc, the other fish have been pushy enough it has been difficult to see where he is hiding now. I did see him come out and grab some pellet food last night, but am going to pick up an infrared camera tomorrow, to make sure he is eating, and maybe see where he hides. No bites on the zucchini or sweet potato yet, but I will keep alternating the veggies, and hopefully he will eventually.

[LauraG]

Well, After a couple IR Camera issues (seems my wi fi is too slow for the in home cameras to initialize) I am giving a trail camera a try. I saw the L183 Monday night when I fed, and he is lively, and ate some of an omega one veggie round, but he had some brown mottling on his back. It looked like stress to me, but today he is back under his log root, so I am going to try the camera tonight. So far he doesn't seem interested in the repashy, or fresh veggies, maybe he is tank raised after all. I will keep trying. Hopefully the camera footage will lend some insight, and I will know if he is eating enough.

[MarcW]

Good to hear you saw it eating something. The colouration on its back may be exaggerated by the infrared camera, if you are concerned by it I would lift up the bit of wood it hides under and take a quick look when there is normal lighting.

Hopefully it starts to eat a mixture of foods soon, maybe you could change the location of the foods around next time you feed, to see if it just keeps going to the same spot, or if it is a preference for one type of food.

[LauraG]

When I saw him slightly mottled, it was with the light on but at a very low setting, I got to see him for about 10 minutes on the wood, and then he went down to eat. He seems very lively though. I couldn't get the trail camera to work yet, it needs movement to trigger the camera to come on, and maybe I was too far from the aquarium, since the fish are small. I am going to try again tonight, and since he is back under his log root, he seems to be settling in somewhat. I think he might have nibbled at the zucchini a bit last night, there was some marks on it. Hopefully I am making progress, and he is getting his territory picked out in the tank.

[Lycosid]

I couldn't get the trail camera to work yet, it needs movement to trigger the camera to come on, and maybe I was too far from the aquarium, since the fish are small.

If by "trail camera" you mean one of the cameras you strap to a tree to watch trophy bucks walk by (these things have too many names, which is why I ask) it's not just a motion sensor but a PIR, which requires the target to be moving AND warmer than the background environment. I use these a lot in wildlife sampling and while they'll trigger on a blob of warm air (moving and warm) they won't ever trigger on your fish (or reptiles, or amphibians). Sorry.

[LauraG]

Thanks for the info, I think you are right. I suppose that is why I haven't got it to work (other than the cat triggering it). I'll look for one that doesn't need a network, but loads the data to a memory card.
In the mean time, I have not seen him in the last day, but I know he has at least 1 hiding spot that I can't find.

[LauraG]

I am going to try a night monocular that records. I should be able to get a couple of hours of footage (something less than 5 with the IR lights active, but we'll see)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TH ... EPWV&psc=1

This is about the only option I could come up with. I have had the L183 for almost 3 weeks now, and this is about the time frame that I lost the other ones, so I definitely would like to know is going on at night.

[MarcW]

I haven't seen those before! I would worry that as it seems designed to view things from a distance, it may not focus well if your aquarium is a foot or so in front of it.

You may have more luck searching for home CCTV cameras with night vision or IR modes, there may be one which doesn't require WiFi, do you have the option on your trail camera to record on a loop, or take pictures every 10 seconds or so, rather than waiting for it to trigger?

[LauraG]

The trail camera was borrowed, and did not have many menu options, so I gave it back. I ordered the monocular this morning, so should have it in a week or so, but did not think of the focus (hope it will be OK). The only CCTV camera's I found that did not need wifi, were the ones that needed an ether net cable hooked to the computer, and this would be all the way across the house. Even though that might work, I was nervous that the cats would drag the camera off the table in the middle of the night (they can't leave anything new alone). The monocular seemed kind of cool, since if it works, I can also take it on my night winter walks with the dogs. We live in the country, so they aren't on leash, and roam quite a bit while we are walking, and are hard to see even with a collar lights on.

BTW, I saw him this morning when I flipped on the lights, and he is very lively and active. I think the mottling has also died down, but did not see him long enough to know for sure. I think he is still only eating the pellets and veggie rounds, because there is little to no eaten spots on the fresh veggies, and the repashy is still there in the morning. I tried cucumber last night, just for something different, but no luck.

Once I can see what he is eating, maybe I can slowly reduce that food and he will be interested the repashy, I just want to make sure, he is completely settled first.

[MarcW]

Good news the mottling has eased, it could have been a stress colouration, which is disappearing now it's settling in.

I think you have the right idea, if its eating something, then let it eat, once its settled in and put on a bit of weight, you can try to encourage it to eat other foods by reducing the food it likes. Just as a guide for when you try to wean it off the tablets, if it's in good health and a reasonable size (~4 inches plus) it shouldn't have an issue going 2 weeks without food. Most of my fish, even small tetras, have gone 2 weeks without food, several times, when we've been on holiday.

[Tony4143]

Good luck with the new L183, I feed mine when the lights go out every night and by the am the food is gone and all the other fish can't get to it.
Tony

[LauraG]

Thanks! I will post when I get the night vision monocular, and actually see who is eating what...I feel much more confident this time around, with your help and guidance Marc, and he seems to be doing well, and once I know he is completely settled, I will start looking for a female (hopefully tank raised, and a bit older than a juvenile)
I haven't ever even fasted the fish for even a day before, although I am learning that it is a common practice, even weekly. I have a neighbor come and feed and do water changes when we go on vacation, even for a few days...
If all the food I feed is gone by morning (and I usually feed right before I go to bed), I have assumed, that I am not overfeeding the tank. I want to feed enough, but not too much, and currently I am feeding little amounts of 5 different things nightly, scattered along the clear area in front of the tank.

[MarcW]

Happy to help where I can! I wouldn't regularly leave 2 weeks between feedings, maybe 2-3 times per year, it was just to illustrate that when in good condition they are pretty resilliant. I would feed, or at least attempt to feed new arrivals every day or night for the first few months, my normal routine would be to feed 5 or 6 days in a week. Occasionally, e.g. over the recent holidays that can drop to 2-3 times per week.

Hopefully the new monocular will enable you to see it feeding, then you can begin your search for a female. Before long you'll be back asking for advice on raising the fry!

[LauraG]

Well... one thing at a time. I got the monocular and tried it last night. I didn't have the focus set quite right, and can only see about a quarter of the tank at a time, but saw him for several hours. It takes hour long video, and goes right from one video to the next, it lasted for 7 hours and was still recording this morning. I now see the area he eats in, but I need to separate the food far enough to see which pile he is eating from. He is definitely very active, and munches on the log and glass quite a bit too. I would like to set it up so I can see which hiding place he picked as well. so this is probably going to take several nights. One thing I am very happy to see, is that he seems to have staked out the log as his territory, and doesn't let other fish push him off his area, not even the dojo loach. I am beginning to think, the dojo loach was part of my problem with the smaller L183's, because I did not use the divider in for the first week, like I did this time. I do think I am past the first hurdle though, thanks everyone!

[MarcW]

Good to hear you could see it and observe normal behaviour. You could try feeding one type of food per night to get a better idea of what it's eating. I suspect it would have a little of most foods.

[TwoTankAmin]

One trick to use with Soilent green is to paint it onto rocks and then put them into the tank. Ancistrus love rasping it off.

I used to pre-slice zucchini, fold it into waxed paper and freeze it. To feed I would nuke slices to defrost rather than to parboil it. Done right this makes it sink. I would nuke it for a short time, drop it into a cup filled with cold water. That is important because warm zuke floats. If it did not sink in the cup as the slice cooled, they got a bit more nuking. I needed no veggie clips or devices to make the zuke sink. It was only when I fed fresh sliced un-nuked/par boiled that I would use a veggie clip.

[LauraG]

I do have a bit of a concern, after watching for 2 nights, he is out from his hiding place 4 to 5 hours, but mostly perches and sometimes munches on the log, sometimes on the glass, but only dips down to the gravel for about 5 to 10 minutes a night where the food is. Right now my tank has a bit too much algea, and I clean only the front glass, but what if he is not eating the food? So far no (or very few) nibbles on the fresh zucchini, cucumber or sweet potato, and the repashy fruut luups and bottom scratcher are sometimes there in the morning as well. The algea rounds and shrimp pellets are gone, sometimes there is a little left, but he is not on the bottom of the tank long. He is active and moves around quite a bit all night, but is what he is eating from the log and glass enough?

[MarcW]

Can you get a good view of the fish, maybe using a torch to see into the hiding place during the day? If you can see the fishes stomach, it will give you a better idea if it is getting enough food. If the stomach appears flat and inline with the rest of the body, it's probably getting enough food, if it is larger or bulging slightly then its getting plenty of food. You should be concerned if the stomach is concave or sunken looking, that's a sign of malnutrition which is often seen on newly imported fish.

[racoll]

I may have missed it, but didn't see what temperature this tank is.

These Ancistrus live in really warm still water alongside discus and angelfish in the wild. I would keep them at about 28-30C (82-86F). At colder temperatures they may have problems eating and slowly die.

Not sure the hillstream loaches would like these temperatures though.

[MarcW]

Good catch Racoll, I just checked out a few of the breeding reports in the cat-elog and they were all kept at the temperatures you suggested.

[LauraG]

I keep my tem at 76 to 78, it is at the high end of the range for the hillstream loaches (but I watch the oxygen carefully and they seem good), but seemed near mid range for what I have seen for the L183's. Last night he was very active on the anubis, and several of the leaves are VERY clean today. That is the first time I have seen him on the anubis. Since my tank is a little overgrown with algea on the plants, could it be that he is preferring that for now, and will eat the other foods once the algea is under control? I admit, when I got him, I got rid of 4 nerite snails, so the algea in the tank would take off a bit (got a little out of hand though).

[LauraG]

I am going to camp out with the goggles this weekend, I haven't, yet, seen where he is hiding, so I can't get a good a good look at his belly. But with the binocular, I can zoom in really well, and not be close enough to the tank to spook him. Hopefully Friday night, I can watch live, until I know. On the first night of video, he was on the glass for a while, but the picture was out of focus, so I can't tell if his belly is full, but there is definitely a round shape there. I will upload it if I can, but I suspect it is too big, and I do not have software for cutting it or capturing part of it.

[MarcW]

I have found with some of my more vegetarian catfish, that they prefer to clean the algae from the glass before moving to prepared foods when they are first introduced. This method of feeding (grazing from rocks/wood/natural surfaces) is how they expect to find food, so it might take them a while to become accustomed to the food concentrated in one place.

Good luck on Friday hopefully you can get a good view, if you get any good footage you want to share, there are several free basic video editors available, make sure you search for reviews and find a reputable one, then you can create a YouTube account to share on here.