Centromochlus perugiae water quality and spawning

[bekateen]

EDIT: On 24-Oct-2015 I changed the title of this thread to include the words "and spawning," to reflect the fact that the fish ultimately spawned.

Hi All,

As I get ready to buy the

Centromochlus perugiae

, I'm realizing that I have some uncertainty about the water conditions that are needed to house these fish and keep them healthy... specifically with regard to water conductivity/hardness.

The CLOG for this species makes no mention of preferred conductivity/hardness.

Some resources on this website indicate that these fish do well in relatively low conductivity water. For example, one section of the Shane's World article on the species (Care and breeding of the oil catfish Centromochlus perugiae) states,

Seidel caught C. perugiae... The conductivity ranged from 10µS to 160µS.

This aligns with one forum post that mentions hardness (http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =7&t=24645):

The water I am using has a pH of around 7.2, hardness of 120ppm and is kept at a temperature of around 80F.

which translates to about 190µs/cm, and this aligns with the only BLOG to include conductivity data:

Conductivity: 100µs to 200µs

But then there's this: (http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 804#p61804)

DO NOT soften the water unless you know the exact collecting location as these fish come from from a very diverse environment. Mine are kept in a 10 gallon tank, 2 males and one female (the rest were lost for various reasons over the last 3 years). They are at a pH of 7.5, moderate hardness(150- 250 ppm) on a sand substrate with java fern and moss scattered through the tank.

When converted to conductivity, this reaches a maximum of nearly 400µs/cm.

And also, the Shane's World article has another statement which appears to contradict the low conductivity idea:

If one considers the wide distribution and the different water-types of the species habitats, it is clear that temperature and water values (pH, conductivity...) aren't important for aquarium care. Much more important is clear (non-polluted) water with a shallow to strong current. Even here C. perugiae proves adaptable (if one does not consider breeding).

Otherwise, I've found no forum posts which specifically mention conductivity values or hardness.

My concern is that my water will be too hard: The water in my different tanks are anywhere from 400µs/cm to 800µs/cm during daily life based upon substrate and decorations in tank, and if water is adjusted for pH (not all in one tank, and not during priming for reproduction) according to the Hanna Instruments HI98129 digital meter I purchased not long ago (which by the way, I really like, and thanks to all who put in their 2 cents in a previous thread (Is there a digital TDS meter you would recommend?) . In my current tanks, I have occasionally lowered the conductivity to around 250µs/cm by bringing home a 5 gallon bottle of distilled water to dilute the water in the tanks temporarily, in order to induce spawning in my plecos and corys. But otherwise, the water runs much higher throughout the year. I do not expect to be able to maintain a low (below 200µs/cm) conductivity on a day to day basis.

My question is this: Will Centromochlus perugiae thrive at a conductivity somewhere between 400-800µs/cm? (I'm not asking about spawning, just day-to-day living)

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers, Eric

[racoll]

Having had a look available records for this species on GBIF, and had a look at a few papers, my educated guess is that this is primarily a whitewater species, and the conditions you propose should not be a problem.

In fact the colouration of some of the individuals in the CLOG being strongly yellow is indicative of a whitewater environment.

[jac]

I am currently keeping, breeding and raising Centromochlus Perugiae in PH 7,3 with a conductivity of 372 microsiemens ;)

[bekateen]

Thank you Racoll and jac. That is great news. This makes me very happy! I should have no trouble maintaining the water around 400.
Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

Hi All,

Well, it happened! I discovered that my

Centromochlus perugiae

oil cats spawned yesterday. I'm telling you because the water parameters did not need to be as strict as I expected. These cats "did it" with no special water treatment and no special preparation (dietary, etc.).

• Water temp was 76F (typical for this species);
• pH was 7.45 (typical for this species);
• but the weird thing was water hardness/conductivity - a whopping 605 microsiemens! (I didn't believe it myself, so I had to calibrate and recalibrate my instrument (the HI 98129).

The other thing that surprised me was how small the mother is. Although I have bigger females, the female which laid eggs is only about 35mm SL - much smaller than I expected for spawning based on the BLOGs I've read.

Maybe this was just a quirky, lucky success with a few individual fish that didn't care about body size or water hardness/conductivity, but frankly, I don't care - I'm just happy that they are happy.

Thanks everyone for the advice and help.

Cheers, Eric

[jac]

Congratulations
They are quite easy to spawn I find. As you have discovered for yourself, they don't care to much about perfect conditions ;)
At least yours keep the eggs inside the tube, mine keep laying them on the edge and so they get kicked out very often.

[bekateen]

Congratulations.

...mine keep laying them on the edge and so they get kicked out very often.

Thanks jac. You have spawned some really neat species, so I appreciate that.

...Regarding your fish dropping their eggs, how long (deep) are your caves? Could they be too shallow?

Cheers, Eric

P.S., When I was reading the various BLOG entries for this species, I didn't find a BLOG entry from you. I know you've documented your spawning and raising of the fry so nicely in another forum thread (here: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =7&t=42139); I imagine that you could fill out a very complete set of BLOG details.

[bekateen]

UPDATE:

At least yours keep the eggs inside the tube, mine keep laying them on the edge and so they get kicked out very often.

Apparently my fish won't hold them for long either, even though the eggs were placed far into the cave. I noticed yesterday fewer eggs in the bamboo cave. Where did they go? Did they hatch? Did they settle to the back of the cave? No - I saw one egg lying on the sand and another about to fall out of the cave; therefore I suspect more have been lost out the mouth of the cave. I think they dislodge pretty easily from the wall of the cave as they age. So this morning I removed the entire cave and dumped the eggs into a separate 2.5 gallon aquarium which I use as an egg hatchery (mom held on inside the cave, so I returned the cave, with her inside, back to the parent tank).

Currently, the only other fish in the hatchery tank are some clown pleco fry about 1 week old still growing off their yolk sacs. So these eggs should have time to hatch and shouldn't be bothered by the clowns.

Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

Here's three little videos of the eggs and fry, first just before hatching, second shortly after hatching, and then third, taken one day post-hatching:

https://youtu.be/AAD_y6GgZY8




https://youtu.be/bqzLEESCG2M




https://youtu.be/Fsv1fETKwwI



The tails are quite active even before hatching.

My hatchery tank has a dense mat of Java moss in it, so I honestly don't know how many fry hatched, but hopefully when they become free swimming after using up their yolk sac (which they haven't done yet, 4 days post hatching), I'll have a better idea as they dart around looking for food.

Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

The little oil cats are about two weeks old now. Here they are at feeding time. As with my other species of cats, I feed the small fry nothing more than a finely-pulverized blend of regular adult foods (whatever I have in the house): This time it includes regular fish flakes, San Francisco brand brine shrimp flakes, NLS Thera A+ pellets, algae wafers, and freeze dried Tubifex worms.

I know people have seen these before in other videos, but come on, almost every parent likes to show of their newest baby videos to a captive audience of friends! ... And as with all baby videos, there's always one little guy in the group who just sits there and does nothing, and some other little guy who wants to show off (at the 1 minute mark, a 3-4 day old albino cory races through the scene)! LOL

Cheers, Eric

https://youtu.be/R2fkR5-GoUk

[bekateen]

After losing my last batch of fry on Thanksgiving day, I was fortunate to have two moms lay eggs again just before and just after Christmas. The babies are about 6-8 weeks old now and one or two of them were considerate enough to pose for an up-close video, so here you go:

Cheers, Eric

Oil catfish (Centromochlus perugiae) juveniles 6-8 weeks old in a hatchery and grow tank

[Jools]

I've come late to this thread, but it's a really nice selection of videos showing progress.

Jools

[bekateen]

Thanks, Jools.

Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

It's photos like this that make me think a tankmate is missing. These baby oil cats, now almost 4 months old, are in a grow-out tank with lots of baby corys.

[jac]

Nice picture

[bekateen]

Thank you, jac. This is my only dedicated fry grow out tank, and I had just added my newly hatched

Corydoras diphyes

to the tank. The tank already has the baby oil cats and babies from three other species of cory (aeneus, trilineatus, and S. barbatus). When I added the diphyes, I noticed that they started moving up in the water column almost immediately, rather than down to the sand... I just hope that the engorged oil cat didn't have diphyes for lunch.

Now I think I need to either move the oil cats or get another grow out tank.

Cheers, Eric

[jac]

I'm 100% sure the Oilcat's will eat the cory fry My Oilcat fry ate a full spawn of L309 fry....so cory's will be just a snack I'm afraid.

[bekateen]

Hi jac,

I remember you reporting that previously. Up until this photo, I had no evidence that corys were being eaten. All had remained accounted for. So I was probably lulled into a false sense of security. I hadn't noticed this fish being so rotund prior to adding the diphyes corys, and I was surprised to see them swim to the surface - where the oil cats feed (whereas my other Cory babies mostly stay at the bottom of the tank, away from the young oil cats). I will be surprised if I have any diphyes left, but I'll keep my eyes open. And I've got to come up with a new home for these oil cats. My next batch of diphyes eggs, which should hatch in a few of days, will not go in with the oil cats.

[bekateen]

Keep in mind that I'm not 100% sure this oil cat ate a Cory. I'm also feeding these babies live Tubifex worms, and I know the oil cats will eat those too. I'll hold out hope that it's a Tubifex worm in its stomach and not a bunch of diphyes fry.

[bekateen]

@jac, my cell phone macro lens arrived today. Time to play!

Here's a pic of my largest oil cat juvie, just over 4 months old.

For people who use Windows Lumia 950 phones, this macro lens works on these phones even though it is advertised only for iPhones and Samsung galaxy phones.

Cheers, Eric

P.s., if you thought I posted a lot of baby pics before (don't you just hate doting parents who do that?!? LOL)... Just wait!

[bekateen]

And here's a video made with the macro lens... I'm really going to like this!!!

Oil catfish (Centromochlus perugiae) juvie, four months old

[bekateen]

@dancurran, you might be interested in this.

Cheers, Eric

[CatWhat]

Did you remove the eggs on these two batches like you did with the first batch?

[bekateen]

Yes, I hatched them in a 2.5gal tank (well cycled) with a sponge filter and extra airstone, heated to 78F.

[bekateen]

It's been a while since I posted anything here. Over a five year span, the

Duringlanis perugiae

were quite good spawners, but one by one I lost a few, until for the last 2 years I've had only 2 males. Well that's over now. In June I picked up a mixed sex group of 8 smallish (I infer young) adults from Anthony Mazeroll at the Amazon Research Center for Ornamental Fishes.

I put them through QT in a 10 gal tank then later added the two big old males. Today I was blessed with one of the biggest spawns I've ever seen from such little fish.

Cheers, Eric