HELP! stung by Akysis; are they venomenous?

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 27 Dec 2006, 12:51

Just got stung- badly- in the hand by an angry Akysis spp (longifilis? bought as prashadi)

obvious one of them without serrations on the pectoral spine, it went in deep and fast.

I was emptying the tank wich I thought was void of fish.
wrong: 4 appearantly healthy Akysis are still in there and I was catching them for transport from the sand.

ouch! hurts like hell! typing this with my other hand

any reports on these being venomenous? because I got cramps in my arm, a cold hand and twitching fingers.
allergic reaction?

any help tips GREATLY appreciated
Alex

lfinley58 · Post by **lfinley58** » 27 Dec 2006, 13:20

Hi Sidguppy,

I am not sure on Akysis, but I am pretty sure that HH has written on painful stings from the closely related Parakysis.

One of the initially suggested first aid procedures for a catfish sting is to immerse the affected area in water as hot as you can stand it. The taking of an analgesic is also recommended. It is suggested that unless the wound is superficial (which yours does not sound like) that be checked for foreign bodies. This can include pieces of the spine, or the covering of it, that might have come off. The spine part can be observed on x-ray; but not the softer components.

Infection is also a potential side effect from such wounds. In reported stings by US catfishes (Ictaluridae) these are usually caused by gram negative bacteria. Checking this out would, of course, require seeing a physician to have an evaluation.

I will go now and send you a link to an article that may help.

Lee

Post by **Silurus** » 27 Dec 2006, 13:24

They are mildly venomous, but this has generally not been reported in the literature. The pectoral spines of most Akysis bear a prominent groove along the anterior edge. This means bad news, as such a morphology suggests some form of envenomation apparatus (venom glands) situated in the groove.

lfinley58 · Post by **lfinley58** » 27 Dec 2006, 13:32

Hi Sidguppy,

Check out the following article. It may help.

http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline/?re ... 4&issue=03

Under Case Reports there is an article on catfish stings on pages 293-303. If you have to see a doctor, it might not hurt to have a copy of the article with you.

Hope the above helps and that you are feeling better.

Lee

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 27 Dec 2006, 13:35

phew good to know.

I know about the hot water trick, from Lionfish-stings and stuff like that, did it and it seems to help.

Dunno what an analgesic is, but since I'm one of those suffering from severe allergies (I'm really bad at coping with house mite, smog and pollen) i have terfenadine in the house, always. this is the stuff wich they shoot up people's veins when they come in dying from a wasp sting. took a big tab, so I won't be getting anaphylactic at least.

checked the wounds (really minute pinpricks) and those seem to be OK.
I checked the fish (not by hand this time, but putting it in a clear bag) and it doesn't seem to miss anything, no finparts missing or so. it's just 1 seriously pissed little Akysis.

tnx for the help; the mildly venomenous reports are likely true, because of the numbing and the weird feeling in my hand. a bit 'rubbery'.

tnx

lfinley58 · Post by **lfinley58** » 27 Dec 2006, 13:54

Hi Sidguppy,

Hope you are still on the mend.

Analgesic = painkiller. This can range from aspirin to the heavy duty prescription only stuff. A doctor (M.D.) friend of mine had gotten a good (bad!!) hit from a Heteropneustes and had to have injected morphine nerve blocks to help (but not totally alleviate) the pain.

Take care and feel better. At least look at it this way...you have the makings of a good first hand article on the topic

Lee

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 27 Dec 2006, 16:27

sidguppy wrote: because of the numbing and the weird feeling in my hand. a bit 'rubbery'.

That's all that's going to happen and it probably won't bother you anymore by now.
I've been there too a couple of times....

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 27 Dec 2006, 17:45

It's numbed now.

the finger hasn't swollen or anything, except when I get out in the cold it starts to hurt. as long as I keep it (and me) warm, no pain whasoever.

strange though; my left collarbone (it was my left hand. I'm lefthanded), left shoulder and left underarm all feel a bit strained. it's not exactly pain, but it feels like the joints are all a bit squeaky.

been in more problems when stung by Erethisthes. that doesn't hurt as much (this was really painful the first 20 minutes or so), but the twitching and the aftermath were much worse, also the nerves were all "confused" then; hot was cold and reverse, fingerspasms and all that. didn't happen this time.

Worst sting I ever had from a fish wasn't a catfish, but a Pieterman -Trachinus spp-; I don't know the English common name.
now THAT seriously hurts, big time.

lfinley58 · Post by **lfinley58** » 27 Dec 2006, 18:31

Hi Sidguppy,

Glad to hear you are doing better. It did sound more than a bit intense on your initial posting.

Lee

Post by **Birger** » 27 Dec 2006, 19:28

Take care and feel better. At least look at it this way...you have the makings of a good first hand article on the topic

This is actually a good idea, most people would tend to be a little apprehensive when stung or pricked by their fish and don't really think about it until the deed is done,it would be good to have some First Aid information available on site either in Shane's world or wherever, that they can use to ease their minds or as Lee suggested take a copy to a doctor.

A First Aid Station could have anything from these stings to travel health information or even dealing with hippo charges for Shane

Sid seems like you keep gaining experience the hard way (like most of us) hope your arm is okay soon!

Birger

CFC · Post by **CFC** » 02 Jan 2007, 15:05

After a recent unpleasent experience i would like to recomend that anyone recieving stings from fish seek medical advice immiedietly. While my experience was from a dead fish bought for the table the results could be the same from any fish.

A few weeks ago i was preparing a pair of Red Snapper for our dinner, while descaling the second fish a momentary lapse in concentration sent my hand too close to the fishes sharp dorsal fins and one of the spines was driven diagonally into my finger beneath the finger nail and had broken off from the fish. I quickly found the zweezers to remove the spine and applied some anti septic cream to the wound and then left it. The next morning the wound was inflamed and sore but still no real reason to be alarmed so i went to work as usual, by lunch time i was feeling unwell and the finger had swollen more again. By the time i arrived home i was visably ill and my wife took me to the hospital where it was revealed i had blood poisoning and the start of an infection in the bone beneath the finger nail, an x ray also revealed a tiny 2mm piece of spine imbedded into the bone which i was scheduled for a operation to have removed the next morning after an overnight stay in hospital while intraveinous anti biotics were administered. After surgery i was on 1000mg a day of anti biotics for 14 days to clear up the infection.

All this was started by bacteria which is apperently common in aquatic organisms both alive and dead so while venoms may be painfull it is the secondary infections which are likely to do more damage.

HELP! stung by Akysis; are they venomenous?

HELP! stung by Akysis; are they venomenous?

first aid

follow up with article link

analgesic