2 new fish, niger cat and juruense

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 02 May 2003, 11:32

Hey there, as you all may or may not know I've been looking for long term neighbors for my stingrays. It led me first to large plecos, then the M. tigrinus, and now the last 2 non-pleco catfish for the tank have been acquired(still considering an orange cheek pleco and a 3 beacon pleco).

The 2 fish are smaller, the pseudodoras at about 6 inches, and the b. juruense at a tiny 4 inches, so they stay with the discus and smaller plecos till over a foot. poor niger was in awful condition when I got him, the LFS owner had been gone due to a death in the family and this bugger was thin, as you can probably see. The juruense came in a bit smaller than expected, but in good health and with a very endearing marking on the forehead... the niger has been in my care and not having observed him eat I netted him a day ago, but his gut is pudged out, it'll just take TLC for him. The other one will just take time. He's in with plecos, discus, and cardinal tetras, and hopefully from the tablets, pellets, flakes and frozen foods he'll find something he likes. If he takes a cardinal I'm not too worried, they've been there 2 years, but, I'm hoping he finds some frozen or pelleted food he likes better, as I hate feeding live foods...

and for the cute baby pim...:

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 02 May 2003, 20:44

He'll tackle those tetra's before you know it; those things grow FAST....

Did you see the niger I spotted at the LFS today? It's at the "mother of snails" post; check it out, and get a REALLY big tank.....

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 02 May 2003, 23:15

heh,actually it probably won't be a tank, most likely an indoor pond, it's more economical and at this point that's what's necessary. I had been planning a bigger tank, but the tank alone was gonna be about $1500 and I'm buying a house now, so it's not likely to happen. It should be a nice collection of bottom fish, the 3 leopoldi rays I've got, the tigrinus, niger and juruense, a scarlet and the plecos I mentioned above.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 03 May 2003, 01:13

Nice list.
But what's a scarlet??

Do you have midwaterdwellers and surfacedwellers too (like Arowana's etc)?

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 03 May 2003, 01:38

heh, sorry. That would be a scarlet pleco, L025.

for midwater I don't have anything set up, although I had toyed with the idea of a small school of parrot pacu, but the more I read, the less it looks like a good idea.

I have been toying with the idea of an arrowana, but the fact that they are jumpers deters me. I've been advised by those that currently keep them that if in a pond, a net over the top would be safest. That takes a lot away from the overall appeal of the enclosure. I've though maybe some SA cichlid, but so far I'm drawing a blank as to midwater ones that would be big enough not to be eaten(I've had people suggest that even an adult discus may be a target for one of the pims), yet peaceful enough not to make feeding the shyer fish difficult. If anyone has ideas I'm looking for something, one condition, has to be S. American.

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 03 May 2003, 02:56

Wouldnt full grown oscars be ok?? I would think your pims would have to be four feat or more to eat a 14 inch oscar especialy due to their bulkyness. Aside from that the only thing i came up with was asian, Carp,koi,goldfish,giant guaramis.What about that manguenese cichlid or whatever its called, iv seen some aweful big ones. How about some north american fish?? Largemouth bass would do alright in the warmer tempuratures wouldnt they?? Or bluegill. Well im out of ideas. Good luck. Great looking fish by the way. Good pictures to.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 03 May 2003, 12:01

Managuense can be pretty mean; once they start to breed, they will push the rays and pims around, no matter what.

The best choices would indeed be Oscars (they're fairly peaceful as big cichlids go) or the Peacock Bass (Cichla ocellaris and it's allies). The drawback of the Oscars is their appetite, they're gluttons, and slowmoving fish might not get enough food. The cichla's are much more shy and even bigger (as big as 2 Oscars nose to tail). They're utterly peaceful to anything not edible and very, very pretty.

Some other suggestions (that don't jump as readily as Arowana's and are South American)
Ctenolucius, Boulengerella, Acestorhynchus, Methynnis and Mylossoma (NOT Myleus or COLossoma, the Pacu) The latter two are Silverdollars.They are peaceful vegetarians that don't pass over the 20 cm mark (wich the Pacu will do of course). Their almost perfect circle shape and speed will prevent them getting eaten as well (Pims have almost eerie perceptions what can fit in the mouth, they won't eat adult Silverdollars and such)

The Pike characin; with an average length of 1 1/2 foot too big to get eaten. VERY peaceful (exept to small fish

) and they're upper water dwellers.

Peacock Bass; the biggest cichlids in South America

Myleus (Red Hook Piranha, despite the name a veggo-fish, and one of the few Myleus that won't reach humungous proportions)

Silverdollars; too small for Phractocephalus, but perfect with smaller Pims.

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 04 May 2003, 07:07

hmm, the silver dollar sizing, at least where I checked ran from 4" to 6"... I had mentioned that I'd been considering keeping juruense with discus before and was advised against it, my discus now, in a seperate tank range from 4.5 to 6.5 inches... and a bad shape for either of the pims mouths. is the 4-6" incorrect?

heh, I've also considered Sevs and Uara too

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 04 May 2003, 11:15

That size is correct.
But there's are some very big differences between discus and these
-their behaviour
-their speed
-their stressendurance
-the place where they 'hang out' in the wild.....

Discus are fragile, easily stressed and slowmoving fish, that dwell near the edges of dark waters, in quiet corners between roots and such. In general they like things peaceful, quiet and boring to thrive.
They specifically get spooked when someone caresses them with thin whiskers during the night!!Even small Pimelodus pictus can make Discus leave the tank; they're simply not used to this. Other Cichlids that can be spooked are Angelfish (esp altums!) and Uaru....although the last aren't as bad as Angels or Discus. Mesonauta festivum is another shy giant. If it's too shy, I don't know.
Heros severus and big Geophagus should be OK: several of these can reach 25-30 cm too; they're too big to get eaten and very friendly! But they aren't easily stressed and thus compatible with your fish.

Silverdollars go everywhere in great numbers, they're fast, though and very active and fairly used to bigger (cat) fish; they even mingle with Piranha's and Arowana's. In the wild, they're as common as dirt, and dwell all over the Amazon forest. They're adaptable too, and their waterparameters can differ widely, another thing the Discus is bad at. compared to the Discus, this is a fish from the fast lane.

But if your fish are capable of swallowing 4-6 inch circular objects, forget it indeed.
That Tiger needs to be really huge to do so, however. The tank containing the adult Tiger and Niger (of wich I posted pics) contained several ciclids, some "Heros" species. Some of those were that size (most were bigger); about 5-6". They were unmolested.....
Heros, like Methynnis, is tough and resilient.

TiGrInUs · Post by **TiGrInUs** » 04 May 2003, 21:50

awesome fish man! P. Niger are great catfish. I have my tigrinus and juruense together with a black arowana. It is a real sight to see. I am also planning to get a ray. I am a little scared that the ray will be bothered by the catfish though. I wil have to see. Good luck with the new catfish.

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 05 May 2003, 06:53

well, it'll be some time... heh... with my savings and the loan I'm getting, and, actually, the next 2 pay checks... I'm going to be really close to the mark on that house, so... will take time to recoup some stores of cash, but I think I'll go with a cichlid. Just seems like cichlids are more fun for some reason. I'd forgotten the larger geophagus, mainly cause they seem to be bottom zone inhabitants, but I guess not necessarily so. maybe a few of those and a green sev or 2.... would spice up the tank a bit. We'll see what seems right when I've got the $ to spend on new fish again. ;) Jeff Rapps may be getting a small order then.