How many equals a shoal

Cleobelle · Post by **Cleobelle** » 23 Jul 2007, 14:11

Hi

I would like to get some Brochis Splendens. The data sheet on them says to 'keep in shoals'. Silly question, but how many fish to a shoal?

Realistically I only have room for 3, or run the risk of overcrowding when the fish in that tank grow up. Will 3 little Splendens be happy together, or would they need to be in a bigger group to be content and happy? They will be going in a community tank with no bullies/fin nippers.

Thanks Sandra

Post by **Marc van Arc** » 23 Jul 2007, 17:06

I would say 5 as a minimum (which is of course no shoal at all). 20 or more would be much better, but isn't realistic for most people.
You are worried about more than 3 because that might cause a problem in the future. Why don't you take 5 specimen and enjoy them for the time being? You can always see what happens and take proper action if necessary.
If you really only have room for 3, I'd suggest you just try that.

Post by **Coryman** » 23 Jul 2007, 17:24

What is the size of the tank you are going to put them in.

Ian

Cleobelle · Post by **Cleobelle** » 24 Jul 2007, 13:02

Hi

Yes, I'm not surprised that 20 or so makes a shoal rather than 3.

I would love to have room for 20...

If I get them, they would be going into a 300l, stocked with small L numbers (max size 15 cm) loaches and rams. They are all babies at the moment, but growing...

If 5 is enough for them to be happy, then that would be a possibility. I also have 5 little concolors in there at the moment, but they are due to move into another tank soon. (Going to empty other tank first and replace gravel with sand. Most of the concolors didn't have any barbels when I got them, so I didn't put them on gravel.)

Many thanks for your help
Sandra

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 24 Jul 2007, 13:39

The general advice I'd have to offer here is that it's not a good idea to mix loaches with Cory/Brochis. One or the other type will "win" the battle for food - most often the loaches.

Other than that, I'm pretty sure that you can put 5 brochis in a 300l tank - but it does of course depend on how many of the other fishes you've got (5 smallish Loricariidae would be fine, 10 or so pushing it, and if you have 15 or 20 small Loricariidea wouldn't be a good plan). Of course, the same applies to loaches - if you have a few, fine, a dozen or more, it's starting to be too crowded.

There's really only two things that determine your ACTUAL stocking limit:
- behaviour of the fish.
- nitrate/oxygen levels in the tank.

If the fish look "unhappy", then it's often caused by water contamination or not enough oxygen [the latter is rarely a problem with Corys and their close relatives as they can take atmospheric oxygen by going to the surface and gulping air, but that doesn't mean that they aren't going to be HAPPIER if the oxygen level is "good"]. Of course, some fish aren't limited by the water chemistry, but for example territorial behaviour of themselves or others - an extreme example would be male Betta splendens where (generally) keeping two in ANY size tank is impossible. But with a large enough tank, you can keep it with many different other fish.

--
Mats

Cleobelle · Post by **Cleobelle** » 25 Jul 2007, 22:15

Hi

I have 4 L numbers, but would like 2 more...

I also have 6 chipmunk botias and 8 kuhli loaches. The chipmunks can be very fast, but don't seem to worry the concolors, who are living in this tank on a temp basis. I thought that as the chipmunks don't get over 3 inches, they would be OK with the Splendens(?)

Over the last couple of days the rams seem to have decided that they hate each other with a passion and are now taking it out on my little concolors.

I think I will need to resolve that before I get anything else for this tank.

Thanks for all of the advice - much appreciated.
Sandra

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 26 Jul 2007, 19:07

As previous responses have indicated Loaches and Corydoras are not really a good combination. In many ways each exploits the same ecological niche albeit some 10,000 miles apart. Of the two the Loaches have almost every advantage in how efficiently they exploit that niche and despite the armor plating of a Corydoras the switch blade spine Loaches possess is a very effective weapon plus they are far quicker and agile fishes.
They can often be successfully combined in the same tank but usually at some disadvantage for the Corydoras.

A shoal is synonymous with a school as AFAIK. I consider 20 and up to constitute one.