Wich Hypancistrus L number is this? (lots of pix, warning!)

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 15 May 2003, 14:24

Recently I had two Pleco's adopted.
one of them is a Blue eyed Panaque; the other one is the critter from the pix, it now resides in one of Pectorale's tanks. This because he's good with his fish, and also because this kind of Pleco doesn't belong in a Tanganyika tank. (Ol' Blue Eyes is going to a huge riverine tank too, another catfish-friend of mine has this tank)

We came out on some Hypancistrus species, with an L-number ranging near 200 or so; but I'm still not convinced.

For the record:
-it's build is highbuilt, but it's "longer" than Panaque, Panaquolus etc. It doesn't taper away as much as a Panaquolus when viewed from the side.
-It isn't "hairy" at all!! I've got LDA01's, and those are like mini-sharks' compared to this one.
-it's got retractable opercular spines! small ones (nothing like a common bristlenose- Ancistrus), but they're there. Panaquolus doesn't have those.
-It hasn't got that "moustache/sideburn" odontodal growth, that Panaque's show (the long spines protruding backward from the gillplate).
-It looks quite a bit like Zoniancistrus sp, except for it's highbuilt!

Anyone?

clothahump · Post by **clothahump** » 15 May 2003, 15:14

My initial thoughts are Peckoltia but which one?
http://www.planetcatfish.com/ilibrary/l ... thumbs.htm

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 15 May 2003, 16:48

Peckoltia L80 looks a lot like it, but so does Hypancistrus L199 and even (especially the pattern from above) Zonancistrus pulcher.
hence the question....!

Post by **Dinyar** » 15 May 2003, 17:58

Take a look at http://www.forum.planetcatfish.com/viewtopic.php?t=971

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 15 May 2003, 19:12

That's NOT the same fish!
#1: that's a "hairy" fish, like LDA01 and many others; esp some of the pics in the second series show it's hairs.
#2: that fish has, what I call, a tapering shape: it's caudal peduncle is quite slim. Mine (pectorale's) doesn't, that one has a 'thick' and 'high' peduncle.
#3: the pattern! mine shows two kinds of stripes, alternating: dark ones and bland ones. The fish on the other thread only has sharp defined dark stripes. mine has a much more irregular pattern too, esp on the head.

for measurements:
compare this pic (ripped from that thread) with the next one:

the Pleco from the thread in your link

the original pleco from me (or Pectorale)

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 15 May 2003, 19:34

Hi!

At first sight i thought L15 as mine "usually" have a very sharp coloration but depending on moods and light they show an irregular pattern.

clothahump · Post by **clothahump** » 15 May 2003, 20:01

L049 by any chance?

Post by **Janne** » 15 May 2003, 20:17

To me it looks like a Peckoltia species and a female that I am sure of, and it is not a Hypancistrus species if you look on the shape of the mouth and the head.

Janne

Cartman · Post by **Cartman** » 16 May 2003, 01:14

I believe this is Zonancistrus Sp. "Atabapo" not Z. Pulcher. They're seem to be a lot of these on the market locally.Sorry I have no pictures but maybe I can talk one of my buddies who has 2, into stopping by and verrifying that you have the same fish.

Andy

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 16 May 2003, 07:02

Hi!

Your fish looks a lot like 2 that I have at home.
The seem to look like Peckoltia sp as males are hairy like one but the teeth seems to differ a bit from Peckoltia.
THe colour pattern is exactly the same than mine expecpt for the line under the dorsal fins.
I believe mine to be L09.
I'll try to post a pic o it...
Cheers
Yann

Plec0maniac · Post by **Plec0maniac** » 16 May 2003, 12:50

hi It looks like an L15

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 16 May 2003, 13:32

this is my L15 from above

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 16 May 2003, 15:25

It sure looks a LOT like mine; what's the size? mine is at least 12 cm or so.
maybe the "double lining" (both clear dark and foggy grey lines) developes when they get big? Do these fishes get more and thinner and more complex striping when they reach maturity? I'm not THAT familiar with the "Peckoltia"tribus....

Oh, btw, it isn't clear in the original pix, but it has a slightly elongated upperray on the tailfin. It sticks out for 1 cm or so.

L15, I'll check it out.

btw can someone of the ichthyologist people here tell me what the difference is between Panaque, Panaquolus and peckoltia; except for size?

Post by **Silurus** » 16 May 2003, 15:36

btw can someone of the ichthyologist people here tell me what the difference is between Panaque, Panaquolus and peckoltia; except for size?

Easiest way to tell them apart is to look at the teeth. Panaque (with Panaqolus as a synonym) have spoon-shaped teeth, while Peckoltia don't.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 16 May 2003, 16:59

Hi!

Mine are around 8 cm.
I really havent figured out how they change color. Really seems to be a modd/light+substrate thing.
this should be the same fish as above. Its really good built around the belly.

some more pics in the catelog

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 16 May 2003, 22:04

Hi,

Silurus wrote: Panaque (with Panaqolus as a synonym) have spoon-shaped teeth, while Peckoltia don't.

I think, these recurrent side blows are not useful here in a forum.
BTW: Eschmeyer sees Panaqolus as a valid genus.
And not only Eschmeyer.
Armbruster is not the one and only ...

Post by **Silurus** » 16 May 2003, 22:41

Speaking of recurrent side blows...
It has also been mentioned that Eschmeyer is not the last word on validities (most people fail to fully grasp the concept behind the Catalog of Fishes).

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 16 May 2003, 22:51

Hi Heok,
do you have any text passage, where the genus Panaqolus is put into synonym?

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 16 May 2003, 22:54

Hi again,
according to AndrÃ© Werner (Transfish) this fish is a L-243 Ancistrinae sp. (Ancistomus?).
http://www.l-welse.com/forum/index.php? ... =03&ID=248

http://www.transfish.de/LCode/L243.jpg

Post by **Silurus** » 16 May 2003, 22:56

do you have any text passage, where the genus Panaqolus is put into synonym?

It has been mentioned before. The discussion in the description of Panaque changae by Chockley & Armbruster (2002).

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 16 May 2003, 23:06

Hi,
but they do not give any reason why Panaqolus should be a synonym

Mentioned before? Sorry, I try to find the thread with the searching function. I dontÂ´t read every thread here (I know, I should, but itÂ´s quite wearysome to read English forums compared to German forums ... ;) ).

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 16 May 2003, 23:38

Actually, I'm glad I know NOW what's the difference between Peckoltia and Panaque. It sure ain't no "side blow" for me, I specifically wanted to know the exact difference. Certainly since "Panaque" includes all kind of smaller species, they can be very hard to distinguish from "Peckoltia".

Years ago, before I knew all those smaller hairy things, it seemed simple:
A Panaque was a huge striped or blue eyed highbuilt monster that cleared the tank from plants, and a Peckoltia was a small striped pleco that was often quite hairy too. But it was confusing too; since Zonancistrus pulcher and Panaque maccus were lumped togetheras "Peckoltia"; despite being quite different....

This means that Panaquolus maccus (Clown Pleco) is actually a true tiny Panaque!
Those teeth are easily seen when the critters are hanging on the front panes. If I creep up to the tank with a magnifying glass.....

So the reason why "Peckoltia brevis" is now called Panaquolus (Panaque) maccus is because of the teeth?
I think this has all kinds of effects on how to care for them: spoonshaped teeth = woodeater = bogwood is needed.
Nonspoonshaped teeth = no bogwoodeater, perhaps? Can a fish like this Peckoltia vittata L15 d without wood?

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 16 May 2003, 23:57

Well,
maybe, maybe not ;)
L-134 are seen as Peckoltias f.e., and my Peckoltias sp. L-134 love wood ;)
OK, big Panaques make "more dust" in the tank, but I can say, thereÂ´s nearly no difference between my Panaqolus albomaculatus Lda 31 and my Peckoltia sp. L 134 in "the amount of their excrements" ;)

Post by **Silurus** » 17 May 2003, 00:13

but they do not give any reason why Panaqolus should be a synonym

I think that statement was made with the presumption that one would have read Jon's dissertation and understood something of loricariid relationships.
The earlier thread might have been removed as some trimming of the forum has taken place.

Walter · Post by **Walter** » 17 May 2003, 00:42

Silurus wrote:I think that statement was made with the presumption that one would have read Jon's dissertation and understood something of loricariid relationships.
.

And I think I will stop the discussion with you now from my side because of your ... (you know what I wanna say ;) ) style.

Pectorale · Post by **Pectorale** » 17 May 2003, 00:58

Thanks for all the help all, I'm still not quite sure though which Peckoltia it is.I tried to see if it's changed it's colours but like I suspected it's behaviour is very nocturnal for now

.I did notice some digging, so I guess some interior decorating is going on, I suppose that will stop once it's settled in?

Pectorale

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 17 May 2003, 10:53

I certainly hope so!
or else I've given you another invisible bugger, wich wasn't the plan at all.....