Death of Ancistrus

PhilipAsh · Post by **PhilipAsh** » 13 May 2003, 22:18

Hi,

A few weeks ago, i told you about the death of my male Ancistrus, after a period of listlessness and not eating, along with some stringy white poo. The fish in the tank seemed to be flicking also.
I dosed with Liquisil and everythign seemed to be OK, but then he died.

I did observe a small amount of white poo at the weekend, but couldnt tell who it came from. I also saw a small amount of flicking, so I gave them a water change and Liquisil again.
Today, one of the females has died. I have taken a couple of photos of her in case the white marks on her are not just scratches from caves etc.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/philipash/deadanc1.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/philipash/deadanc2.jpg

Does any one have any ideas? I have several treatments available, but am lost as what to do next. I have several other nice L nos in the tank I really do not want to lose.

Many thanks in advance,

Phil.

Plec0maniac · Post by **Plec0maniac** » 14 May 2003, 09:58

hi I think that ur tank water has a problem. Ur pleccs has internal bacteria! And I think that it is dangerous bec. One by one your plecs are dying!

It needs alot of water change, try adding heater, and place some medicine

good luk

Post by **Silurus** » 14 May 2003, 10:08

You mentioned using Sterazin the last time and that caused the symptoms to disappear. Did you try using it again?

PhilipAsh · Post by **PhilipAsh** » 14 May 2003, 10:55

The past three weekends, this tank has had 50% changes. Not an insignificant amount on a 70 UK gal tank. The temp has been 80F, it used to be at 78F.
The water is remineralised RO, as has been used for 9 months. No changes to diet.

I have not tried the Sterazin again, as it obviously didnt kill off whatever is causing the problem. Liquisil also seemed to remove the symptoms, but again didnt solve the problem.
I do a large water change and then run a polyfilter prior to switching treatments, even if it has been a while since the last dose.

I have heard of Octozin being used for these syptoms too. Anyone have any comments on that?

As you can see from the pics, she was healthy in every other respect, nice fins, good body size etc

It is so hard not having a definate diagnosis.

Phil.

DeLBoD · Post by **DeLBoD** » 15 May 2003, 10:37

Hello ,my Glyptoperichthys joselimaianus also has the same patches on its body.
I took samples from the bacteria in my filters and with a microscope I found numerous parasites like HETEROPOLARIA spp. some Hydra I cant identify and gill flukes.

I can confirm that they came in a batch of live bloodworms ,the dead worms in the packet also had the same parasites on them .!!!!!!

Take a look here for advanced identification especially HETEROPOLARIA..

http://www.ntlabs.co.uk/microscope_diagnosis.htm

DeLBoD · Post by **DeLBoD** » 15 May 2003, 22:13

Silurus. I read(on the net)that these parasites are expectable in small numbers and only attack when the fish are in unsuitable conditions.
But is that just for ponds or are they acceptable in indoor aquaria ?

Post by **Silurus** » 15 May 2003, 22:23

It depends on the species involved. Some of them (like <i>Heteropolaria</i>) are actually commensals, not parasites. They do no benefit or harm by themselves to the fish, but their presence may cause other opportunistic pathogens to infect the fish.
Their presence in small numbers is no cause for alarm in aquaria (in fact, their presence is expected), but a heavy infestation is a sign that things are going wrong. If your fish are healthy, they should be able to live with normal (low) levels of these commensals, since their immune system is pretty much capable of handling them.

DeLBoD · Post by **DeLBoD** » 15 May 2003, 22:39

They all seem fine(8 Synos 2 Pl*co) apart from 1 Glyptoperichthys joselimaianus who had two small 2mm patches of white/grey and fat stomach .
I treated them with INTERPET Anti internal parasite as a immediate reaction yesterday and the patches have gone now ,did wonder about transferring them to a 100L tank and salt washing the infected tank but Iâ??ll wait and see.

Thanks.

PhilipAsh · Post by **PhilipAsh** » 17 May 2003, 15:47

OK. I have dosed the tank with Octozin. I have heard reports of this curing mysterious illness and white faeces symptoms. One more dose to the tank tonight and I am done.

If i see any flicking after this, I am going to wait three days, do a 50% water change and run a polyfilter overnight. I will then treat with Sterazin. I can't imagine any nasties surving after that, and if they do, it must be a bacterial problem.

Anyone have any comments on the above plan?

Phil.

DeLBoD · Post by **DeLBoD** » 17 May 2003, 16:23

I donâ??t know the chemicals involved maybe I would leave more time between medications encase you make a toxic catfish soup.
Also clean up all around the lid and glass at the top of the tank I found loads of slime there , try to get the medication all around those areas so the whole tank is treated not just the water ..

Good luck.

PhilipAsh · Post by **PhilipAsh** » 17 May 2003, 18:42

Thanks Delbod

They are both Waterlife products http://www.waterlife.co.uk and they recommend waiting two days between switching products. Octozin is still active for three days following the final dose. A Polyfilter will remove the remaining meds after the waterchange, so I am confident i won't end up with soup.

I have put the final dose of Octozin in now, and I can still see some flicking, so it looks as if i might still have some work to do.

What period of quarantine would you guys advocate when making a new purchase ?
I usually leave my new fish 3 weeks and if all seems well introduce them after that. Maybe need to start leaving them longer? I did have a peppermint plec that wasnt well after i got him. He ended up spending 6-7 weeks in quarantine. He just didnt eat for a week. After a dose of Liquisil he seemed OK. Maybe he had something more serious?

Phil.

DeLBoD · Post by **DeLBoD** » 17 May 2003, 21:24

Thatâ??s good to hear, the medications I have all say leave for 1 week or so before adding any other medications and that can be a real problem if treating for more than one infection/virus or whatever.
I shall look into these other products for future treatments.

Only just got a 50L tank for quarantine myself and was thinking 3-4 weeks at a higher temperature should show most illness/disease ,but shock/stress I think can trigger these infections just as much as bad water, so even after Q tank when they are moved to the new tank the shock/stress starts again as it were .(mabie)

PhilipAsh · Post by **PhilipAsh** » 18 May 2003, 21:37

OK, I have a new pic, which shows symptoms unobserved before.

You can clearly see a white/blueish tinge to the skin which is patchy in areas.

Again, I have no experience of this. Does it look familiar to anyone else?

Thanks again for all your help,

Phil.

DeLBoD · Post by **DeLBoD** » 19 May 2003, 07:37

At a glance I would have to say Slime Disease velvet or even fungus.
Internal parasites can cause the same symptoms also .
What other fish do you have in the tank ?.

PhilipAsh · Post by **PhilipAsh** » 19 May 2003, 07:53

Delbod,

OK, here goes. Corydoras (several species) x 25 (Some added in last 6 months)
L134 x 1
L260 x 2
L46 x 1 (Was in a different tank with 5 others)
SAE x 2
Clown Loach x 2
Bolivian Ram x 1
Kuhli Loach x 2
L163 x 1
Peppermint Plec (Not yet identified) x 1
Cardinal Tetra x 5
And of course the two remaining Ancistrus.

All fish that have been added in the last 6 months were quarantined first. They are in bold.

Hope this helps.
I am grateful for any assistance anyone can offer.
I could just work my way through different types of treatments, but I don't enjoy stressing or losing fish.

Phil.

Plec0maniac · Post by **Plec0maniac** » 19 May 2003, 13:14

I dont think that any of the fishes are the cause of why ur ancistrus are falling ill. Since ur quaranting the plecs b4 placing them in the community tank! I had experience those sickness on my last shipment on L144a last year.. All the ancistrus around 13 of them dies except for 1.. And this fish has been shipped together with alot of L168 which i had no casuallties... This only means that the plecs are really sick from the wild and was exported to us.. Dis might be the same problem with ur ancistrus...

DeLBoD · Post by **DeLBoD** » 19 May 2003, 16:13

I didnâ??t think it were other fish that caused the problem.
I was thinking of different fish show different symptoms of specific diseases.
Silurus said it already â??Sterazinâ?

PhilipAsh · Post by **PhilipAsh** » 19 May 2003, 18:15

OK. I have now got even more info. This is the other remaining ancistrus. Not the one in the previous picture.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/philipash/anc2.jpg

In this pic, you can see the white stringy faeces and some body discolouration.
I am about to do a 50% change and run a PolyFilter until tomorrow night.
I still have until then until I can dose with another medication, so any comments are still welcome.

Phil.

Plec0maniac · Post by **Plec0maniac** » 20 May 2003, 12:18

my advice to u is, the water change is correct, add some water conditioner. and add antibiotics for internal parasites. add heat to the tank, and observe

hope this helps