eupterus tank scape

[andywoolloo]

o.k. I am venturing out of my syno eupterus thread.

I have read this forum and shanes world up and down and backwards and forwards. I have purchased and read the following catfish books:

The World Of Catifsh by Midori Kobayagawa
African and Asian Catfishes by David Sands
Catfish by Jurgen Schmidt
Catfish by Gary Elson and Oliver Lucanus

I have researched PVC vc ABS Silcon I vs Silicon II

I have soaked boiled dishwashered scrubbed driftwood and slate and rocks. All the rocks I decided are of the same kind. I have pvc pipe 10 pieces that are 2 1/2 diameter and 9 inches long all over the floor, along with sandpaper and tubes of silicon. Aquarium safe silicon. Dap makes a special now that says Aquarium all over the front side and is a gray tube.

So far in their 75 gal tank, They have 5 pieces of driftwood that have java ferns attached, they still have their 2 orig caves and the one large cave (All three of those are bought fake deco) I will delete them at a later date. When I figure out how to add all the slate and driftwood and pvc into the tank and still leave them room to swim. Their frogbit that I placed in is growing well and I think they like it as it cuts back the light during the day which they hate.

A 75 is a fine size for them, for them and their furniture? Maybe not. I am not good at spacial dimensions. But I am trying. At least so far I have eliminated any cats going in between the intake tubes and under the heater so I must be doing something right.

The PH went from a 7 to 6.8. I am watching it carefully and will get some crushed coral as a back up but i wont put it in less someone here advises me too.

I will take a pic when I am done.

Anyone have any suggestions? I want my synos to be happy. They are coming out during the day and coming up to the glass to say hi. That's an improvment.

My main prob right now is the stuff I want to add to my tank I do not know how to fit and give them open space. Also the landscape of the tank is low...all low across which looks wierd. I have yet to add the big driftwood that is like a tall and big with many branches. I am kinda scared to add that one altho it will probably make the tank look way better cause it is so tall and stuff.

[andywoolloo]

ok my PH is 6.6 - 6.8

it's always been 7- 7.2

I even changed 50% of their water last night 3 days ahead of a once a week time.

I mean the driftwood looks good, but will my PH go away entirely and hurt them?

And I dropped a piece of pvc on my toe and it's bleeding. I suck at this.

K i want to take it out all of it and soak it longer and test the water in the outside bucket until it isn't changing the PH, i thought since it wasn't leaking tannins that it was done. What shoudl I do? The driftwood was boiled or dishwashered and set out in hot water that was changed for a week. No tannins were left when I put it in the aquarium.

[Richard B]

If your pH is dropping rapidly over a short space of time something is wrong that needs putting right. Firstly is the test kit accurate? i.e. not one that is old & out-of-date.

If it is ok then something else is the cause - is the filteration enough? is here excess food decomposing? Is there variability in your tap water? If we elimnate one thing at a time, we'll eventually find the cause. How much is it dropping by in what time period. you said it always was 7-7.2 - how long was it stable like this for? What has happened since? (more fish, new decor, different food - nything you can think of needs to be considered).

I'm sure we'll get there by a process of elimination soon enough

[andywoolloo]

All my tanks always have the same PH and so did the syno s till I added the driftwood.

It's been about a week since I added the driftwood. Maybe 8 days.

Let me see if I have a new PH test thing, o.k. with a brand new PH test its the same 6.6 - 6.8

the only addition is the driftwood, java ferns and anubias, and frogbit.

sigh. so the driftwood altered my PH from 7- 7.2 to 6.6 - 6.8 ,

A 0
NI 0
NA 5 ppm or less
PH 6.6 - 6.8

2 eheim ecco cannister filters, each is a 2236 model, each does 185 gph so times two is 370 and a hydor koralia powerhead #1 which does 400gph.

They are eating and loving their driftwood. No one is by the intake or under the heater.

I clean their tank 2 times a week. On the first time I suck up anything I can find. which isn't much. On the other time I suck up some stuff and I do a 50% water change.

From the tap the ph is 7.0

All my tanks are the same as fas as testing, all the time, so i am thinking its the driftwood.

their tank has been cycled since 122307.

Usually with my other tanks when it's time to do the weekly water change the PH is actually higher then when it originally went in. At water change time for them it could be 7.4.

No new fish no new food or decor cept the dang driftwood, it looks pretty but im not adverse to removing it.

*****ETA **** i forgot about the rocks i put in! They are from the fish store, He has boxes of diff rocks all aquarium safe he says. The one s I picked are pale slate-greenish in colour and small and smooth. I did the vinegar things and no bubbles. I can take those out!!*** they are lite gray green river stones smooth. Kinda like this:

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbv ... stones.jpg

but more like the flat one on the top left, pale green grayish.

ok well ops maybe it's the light in this room when I tak eit outside everyone says its 6.8 or 7.0. Crap, it's hard to determine.

[Birger]

Your ph shouldn't yo yo around like that...but don't panic...you have been doing really well so don't make any panic changes(I do not mean water changes they are always good) unless there are signs of distress in your fish(even then panic changes can be devastating)
Richard gives good advice in going step by step instead of making a whole bunch of big changes then you can monitor what is going on.

How much wood did you put in at once....it sounds like you added quite a bit which is great for the eupterus and the looks of the tank but will mess with things a bit.
Maybe you could start with a couple and then add one every month or so(or even start with the one big sort of cool stump thing you said you got)

If the tank had a chance to cycle with the wood in it, things might be different but without getting to technical even the wood needs a chance to get its share of bacteria and what not going

Birger

ps...I can't remember did the wood come from a LFS or from a stream/beach or something

[andywoolloo]

I have a lot of pieces but I only added 3 last week. I thought I had added more but it's three. I left half their old places in case they didn't like the driftwood. Which they love the driftwood.

I bought it at the fish store. Well one was from a different fish store, it was labeled malaysian driftwood, the rest was from the other big fish store and he said it was already soaked and all. Well I did it again cause, well, that's just me.

ok, i won't panic and I will read my test results out of this room from now on. Cause it looks different colour outside and in the bathroom even? Geez....

They have already dug little passageways under the dritwood in the sand and sometimes there are multiple synos on each piece. And today I saw the big one and a medium sized one doing a wierd dance together. Kinda wiggly and whiskery. ((shrug))

[Plecofanatic1989]

Hi.
In my experiences, driftwood will ALWAYS lower pH (that's in my experience and may not actually ALWAYS be the case). The tannins have nothing to do with pH, they just discolor the water, so boiling and stewing and soaking or whatever you wish to do with the driftwood, will remove tannins, but has nothing to do with pH. All my tanks have a piece of driftwood or two and they're all at pH 6.2-6.5 which is OK for what I'm keeping. A low pH is OK for eupterus (Cat-eLog says pH 5.6-7.5). I have one and he's fine. He loves the driftwood too .
Just as an experiment, sit the driftwood in a bucket or extra tank with water that you have premeasured as 7.0-7.2 or whatever is normal. Put the wood in and let it sit like it would in your main tank. Measure the pH after some time to confirm (or disprove) that it's the driftwood causing your pH drop.
If it is the driftwood, there is no need to remove it because as stated before, a slightly lowered pH will do them no harm. I would only be concerned if they started showing signs of stress, otherwise, why fix what isn't broken? right.
Good luck Andy,
Josh

[andywoolloo]

ok i have 6 pieces and the huge stump one still outside. I can put them back in water again and test the water before then 24 hours later? Well I will test it every day for a week! Cause this is day 8 of driftwood in syno tank.

Thanks you.

[Plecofanatic1989]

Nothing wrong with that.
Josh

[andywoolloo]

o.k. I took a random extra already prepared ie scrubbed boiled dishwashered soaked piece of driftwood that I hadn't put in tank yet and soaked it in a bucket of tap water for 24 hrs.

Original PH of water at time of drawing from tap 7.0
After 24 hrs with driftwood in bucket still 7.0

PH in syno tank right now 6.8

Maybe cause there is three in there is why 6.8
Or maybe each piece will test diff if I was to take it out of syno tank and put in bucket outside? Does that mean I have to test each one in their tank? I can?

But I'm kinda o.k. with 6.8. I think I was reading it wrong in the computer/fish room, now I read it out back.

Also when I came home from work last night all power was off, big storm, unknown when it started but it was off for three hours from when I got home and def before that! I was so freaked out! first time that has happenned. I got my battery powered air pumps and set them all up in the catfish tanks, syno and cory, they were fascinated by them.

I wrapped their tanks, all tanks, even bettas, in blankets and towels.

Everyone seems fine. I got to see the synos alot cause i couldn't sleep cause I was stressed out how the temp was dropping, on the bettas was scaring me the most, Anyways, boy were the synos active! They all had their belies on occasion to the glass and were swimming all over. I tried to see if they were boys or girls.

One you couldn't see anything at all. The small one. The others, some looked like boys and some like girls. But I am not sure, but they def had different things "there".

[Plecofanatic1989]

Be patient for the pH to change. It'll take some time for it to decrease. More driftwood should make it drop more readily. Sorry to hear about your power outage! Glad to hear everything is OK.
Later,
Josh

[andywoolloo]

k. but I do not want it to drop. Do i?

Look at this awesome syno eupterus video i found! I so love them!

http://search.msn.com/video/results.asp ... 2846145578

(wait for it, he comes out and he is beautiful!!! )

[MatsP]

You probably won't want the pH to drop too much or too quickly, but wood will make the pH drop some, particularly if you have soft water. If the water is quite hard, then dropping the pH is going to be difficult.

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

I think our water is really hard here. It leaves a white calcium I think line on the pool tile that I have to pay someone to blast away with some glass stuff from a power sprayer, is that hard water? or is calcium different then hard?

I just tested it now when I got home and fed them and its 6.8 still.

[MatsP]

Yes, calcium is part of the components that make water hard, and it "soaks up" any acidity in the water. To make pH change, you really need to remove that hardness, and that in turn means either a De-Ionization unit or a Reverse Osmosis unit. Rupert Collins (racoll) has written an article about Water Chemistry that lives in Shane's World, so have a look at that.

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

Yes, calcium is part of the components that make water hard, and it "soaks up" any acidity in the water. To make pH change, you really need to remove that hardness, and that in turn means either a De-Ionization unit or a Reverse Osmosis unit. Rupert Collins (racoll) has written an article about Water Chemistry that lives in Shane's World, so have a look at that.

thanks Mats! I will def read that again.


o.k. second bucket of driftwood 2 pieces in 24 hrs later

7 PH at start and 7 ph 24 hrs later.

I am thinking it's cause I put three in at once. And 6.8 is almost 7. And the eupterus PH range on the fact sheet here is 5.6 - 7.5 so I won't worry too much. Thanks all.

The syno tank today is PH 6.8 I think. Hard to tell the difference in colours.

Do any of u use the testers that are lke electronic and reads out a digital thing? Are they worth it?

http://www.aquariumguys.com/phmonitor.html

Maybe I will test the rocks in the bucket of water?

[MatsP]

A pH meter or monitor is probably the best way to check your pH on a regular basis. Particularly if you are after checking small changes - colours are often hard to tell the difference between some near the same colour [although having both side-by-side will usually allow you to compare the two samples and say "The one with wood is more acidic" - even if you can only say that it's "a small difference" and not say for sure].

Note however that pH meters will need calibrating - the sensor part will go off after some time, and you need to calibrate it against a known pH buffer solution - or you won't know that your measurement is OK or not.

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

thanks for the info. Think I'll stay with liquid drops for now. I have one piece of pvc pipe in the tank so far, it's extremely popular. Only thing is i got them 2.5 in diameter and 9.5 long. Where will I place them all! LOL They sure like the one I put in so far. I may try to fit in another? They are sure much more outgoing the more stuff I stick in there. LOL I haven't had anyone under the heater or between the intake tubes in weeks.

I wish I had a 200 gal tank.

[andywoolloo]

ok i moved the three pieces of driftwood that were in the tank so far, all to the left side and kinda placed them against each other, leaning, sturdily. So it's like a huge piece that goes all over.

One freaking syno cat took over the whole thing!! Are you kidding me! Wow! This leads me to believe IF I ever add the huge piece of driftwood that I have, it''s long on the bottom and tall and branches out, it's so cool. But If I add it, it will take up alot of the right side, which is fine, they can still swim around it, I will make sure, BUT what if ONE cat takes it as his own!!! I so need a 200 gal tank fore these 5 just for their furniture!!

I added more PVC pipe. Sigh.

I think I get an "f" in tank scape.