possible updates to lake syno breeding info

[Richard B]

Just a quick thought,

Granulosus states "Has not been bred by hobbyists who doucmented the fact, but has been bred by hormone injection in Eastern Europe" - do we all recognise now that it has occurred at the southern uk wholesaler? With dealers selling uk bred genuine fish (eg, TRIMAR), having seen them personally & having been exhibited at GLEE it has happened although details are scarce.

Polli states "Many reports, but none confirmed. Upon investigation, reported spawnings have been of species other than S. polli." Worton (pl) has posted a video (that is also available on youtube of polli spawning above a shell occupied by A. Calvus.

Grandiops - i feel this has been spawned as it is so close to multipunctatus, it is still misidentified by dealers & hobbyists alike but i wouldn't put my mortgage on it.

Petricola states "Because of the existence of the dwarf form, it is unclear if this species / form is the one many aquarists have spawned." Haven't sidguppy & others indicated this species & not the dwarf form - now identified as lucipinnis - have been bred in threads in the forums? Sid clearly can tell the two apart.

These statements are a little vague at times (sorry) but there is evidence of varying strengths that suggest updates would be desirable.

[worton[pl]]

Hey,

yup you are right Richard . And there is many more people who don't use internet .

Tanganyikan synos breed regulary. It's a fact .

Regards.

[MatsP]

If I get the time tomorrow, I will update as I think appropriate. It may take a few days for Jools to approve the changes, but shouldn't be to long. I will post here again when I have updated them.

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Mats

[Jools]

Granulosus states "Has not been bred by hobbyists who documented the fact, but has been bred by hormone injection in Eastern Europe" - do we all recognise now that it has occurred at the southern uk wholesaler? With dealers selling uk bred genuine fish (eg, TRIMAR), having seen them personally & having been exhibited at GLEE it has happened although details are scarce.

Polli states "Many reports, but none confirmed. Upon investigation, reported spawnings have been of species other than S. polli." Worton (pl) has posted a video (that is also available on youtube of polli spawning above a shell occupied by A. Calvus.

Grandiops - i feel this has been spawned as it is so close to multipunctatus, it is still misidentified by dealers & hobbyists alike but i wouldn't put my mortgage on it.

Petricola states "Because of the existence of the dwarf form, it is unclear if this species / form is the one many aquarists have spawned." Haven't sidguppy & others indicated this species & not the dwarf form - now identified as lucipinnis - have been bred in threads in the forums? Sid clearly can tell the two apart.

These statements are a little vague at times (sorry) but there is evidence of varying strengths that suggest updates would be desirable.

Hi Richard,

I will edit these once submitted to formalise them a bit. For example, your S. granulosus spawning text states details are "scarce", they are actually non-existent (otherwise we'd be adding them too!) and so the statement in the cat-elog is 100% correct. If you can provide more details we'd love to add them.

Grandiops - I think that's a dangerous assumption to make and we don't know if it is an egg scatterer or a cuckoo spawner. However, I seem to remember Dinyar saying sometimes S. multipunctatus egg scattered - maybe that was the other species. However, that's conjecture but as long as that's clear it can be added as such.

I'm not aware of S. polli spawnings on the forum but agree the lucipinnis entry needs tidied up. Can you point me to the posts in question?

Jools

[worton[pl]]

Hey,

Jools, please take a look at this thread - spawning of S. polli.
Movie and photos included.

And there is of course still a "White Zambia" Syno which also spawns in aquariums.

Regards.

[MatsP]

I have made some changes to S. granulosus, S. grandiops (two different edits), S. petricola and S. lucipinnis.

Jools may of course reject, or rewrite my edits.

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Mats

[Richard B]

Of course - it was only a suggestion that the info was a little dated.

As far as grandops goes i am trying to find an old pfk with a breeding report on multis (is is years ago, some chap who was wheelchair bound called Royston(?)) There were good side photos of his fish so was going to check for multi/grandiops - grandiops seems much less well known as a new species than lucipinnis, & although i have no evidence whatsoever, the law of averages points to one captive spawning of multis being grandiops in reality although i am not for a moment suggesting an update to cat-e-log based on that.

I am under the impression, as previously stated, that multis are cuckoo spawners that will scatter at times.

I believe sp(2) the white polli that's undescribed is a cave spawner that will also lay close to the breding site of c*****ds so they inadvertantly protect the syno eggs, in a sort of pseudo-cuckoo method, & has also sometimes scattered.

granulosus AFAIK, from conversations with Gavin Schmidt at Neil Hardy Aquatica...

...he has several specimens, which are all kept separate from each other but with other fish. a pair areonly brought together for a breeding attempt. Only 1 female has produced although at different times with different males. Very few eggs are produced at a spawning.

I spoke with a guy at Aqua Blue Zaire last week who revealed he had a spawning in the past of his own fish but the eggs were not fertile.

It has been reported many times that individuals are difficult to keep together because of high levels of aggression. I have not witnessed this with my 2 tank bred specimens - perhaps because they are kept in a crowded mixed lake syno set-up which diffuses aggression like with Mbuna?

[Birger]

It has been reported many times that individuals are difficult to keep together because of high levels of aggression.

I think sid said they were quite easy going but I would have to go back and find that thread...

Birger

[worton[pl]]

It has been reported many times that individuals are difficult to keep together because of high levels of aggression. I have not witnessed this with my 2 tank bred specimens - perhaps because they are kept in a crowded mixed lake syno set-up which diffuses aggression like with Mbuna?

Hi Richard

It is also about personality (fisholity?) of every specimen I think. Since sometimes two fish in one tank will fight till one is almost dead and sometimes they do really great together.

Probably keeping more than 2 in one tank will solve problem of agression but a big tank is needed and a lot of money so it's not that easy to achieve.

I think sid said they were quite easy going but I would have to go back and find that thread...

Sid got 5 if I remember correctly

If possible it would be great to see cat-elog entry about S. polli spawn. There is a movie on which you can clearly see eggs. Only concern is if it is really Polli. Method of spawning is also very interesting - looks like they are some kind of shell-dwellers parasites .

[Jools]

I've slightly tweaked and added in Mats data. Happy to look at more.

Jools

[Richard B]

Aggression amongst granulosus has been recounted to me by the importer in Krakow i visited, ABZ, & Neil Hardy Aquatica - it may be a case of individuality infuenced by set-up other inhabitants etc

[Jools]

Aggression amongst granulosus has been recounted to me by the importer in Krakow i visited, ABZ, & Neil Hardy Aquatica - it may be a case of individuality infuenced by set-up other inhabitants etc

Total guesswork, but is this a mature males vs females thing. If there are reports of some being aggressive and others not, this would explain it.

Jools

[MatsP]

I haven't done S. polli because I'm unsure as to what exactly the message should be. Is this about right?
"Has been spawning in captivity, but no fry raised, appears to spawn with shell-dwelling cichlids"

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Mats

[worton[pl]]

"Has been spawning in captivity, but no fry raised, appears to spawn with shell-dwelling c*****ds"

Pollis he has, spawn always 2-3 days after Calvus. It looks like it is about shell-dwellers however Calvus is not a strict shell-dwelling cichlid. Well to be honest it is not a shell-dweller. It uses shells only in aquarium where lack of other good spawning sites force it to use a shell.

Maybe second part should looks like this: appears to spawn with shell-dwelling c*****ds however breeding occurs with pair of Calvus using a shell. And then a link to a movie? Or I can ask for a movie and you can put it in S. polli photos?

[Richard B]

Jools - from what i understand, i think you are on the right track - i believe alpha females, when kept in a group are the dominant individual & can do quite a bit of damage if they feel the need

[Jools]

Guys,

Are we finished with this thread? Are any more updates needed for now?

Jools