Rumor or not? Ibamas whitelist…

[pleco22]

Hi,
usally summer is not a good time for seeing plecos at the LFS. Export rates from south-america are low. This year there is a rumor about a new list, some kind of a whitelist. Ibama (Brasil) has created this list in 2008 for controlling export of wild animals. Undescribed animals, like l-number plecos have no chance to get on this list - so the trade of brasilian l-number plecos is now illegal.

The following link leads to Ibama website: This cases shows, something is happening - but what?
http://www.ibama.gov.br/2008/06/24/fisc ... s-no-para/

Does anyone of the members of PCF knows something? Is there a whitelist?

Greetings from Frankfurt/Germany
Felix

[Barbie]

This topic was discussed a few times in the last few months. Here is one of those threads. It's going to be very interesting to see how they work to get some of the species described in the coming months.

Barbie

[pleco22]

Hi,

if I have translated this message right from Ibama, the process of building this whitelist is allready finished since april 2008. The question is: Is this list ready? Or is Ibama acting like this on foundation of an older list?

thank you

Felix

[Yann]

Hi!!

The link you provided just statet that the IBAMA went to an airport an check the boxes of a coming export and found about 50 specimens of Hypancistrus and Panaque, which are currently forbidden to export... the IBAMA ceased the fishes.
It also said that every envoy should comport documents that are first transmitted to the IBAMA, who then gives the OK or not...and this is why they came to the airport to check the box...
the exporter now face a fine of 2'000 R$ for the illegal shipping and will face a court which will take further decision toward the company...

In the same Idea... but 1182 fish were found...
http://www.ibama.gov.br/2008/07/02/ibam ... e-do-para/

Cheers
Yann

[apistomaster]

Sounds definitive to me.
Moral of the story is to breed them if you have them.
It will take a long time to describe and assess the sustainability of the fishery for each species.

[sidguppy]

Moral of the story is to breed them if you have them

no, the moral of the story is: "we show the gringo's who's boss. we don't give a flyin wazoo about pleco's or other wildlife, hence all the big dam building projects that will screw up big parts of Amazonia beyond any repair. but we're in charge and we will go to any length of nastyness to rub your face in the facts"

THAT's the moral of the story.

my conclusion: politicians are the lowest form of filth on this planet. period.

[Mike_Noren]

In my darker moments I also wonder if there's an element of "if you don't even know these species exist, you'll not miss them when we build dams/clear forest and drive them extinct".

[KnaveTO]

Moral of the story is to breed them if you have them

no, the moral of the story is: "we show the gringo's who's boss. we don't give a flyin wazoo about pl*co's or other wildlife, hence all the big dam building projects that will screw up big parts of Amazonia beyond any repair. but we're in charge and we will go to any length of nastyness to rub your face in the facts"

THAT's the moral of the story.

my conclusion: politicians are the lowest form of filth on this planet. period.

To continue... "otherwise pay us hundreds of millions of dollars and MAYBE we might THINK about saving some of the Amazon"

[sidguppy]

definitely very true, Knave, definitely

[Janne]

we show the gringo's who's boss.

Only people from north america is a "gringo" if you know the mexican story.

we don't give a flyin wazoo about pl*co's or other wildlife, hence all the big dam building projects that will screw up big parts of Amazonia beyond any repair. but we're in charge and we will go to any length of nastyness to rub your face in the facts"

Just like most other countrys, luckily not all is like that in Brazil, many people is working with the environment...probably the country in the world that have most people working in this field.
I dont like politicians either but they are not helped through statements like the one above, it just feeds them to act as you expect.

In my darker moments I also wonder if there's an element of "if you don't even know these species exist, you'll not miss them when we build dams/clear forest and drive them extinct".

Some politicians maybe think like that but there are many other Brazilians and governments that work hard to protect their environment, they need just more money and time but they are not just sitting on their butts in the meantime. Try to not be so narrow minded even if it looks dark for the moment

"otherwise pay us hundreds of millions of dollars and MAYBE we might THINK about saving some of the Amazon"

They have been offering 50 billions $ for the Amazon which they turned down, someone estimated that the whole Amazonia not was worth more then that...I wonder how he figured out that value?

This turns out to a politic debate which not benefit anyone, like the statement above..."politicians are the lowest form of filth on this planet. period." so we should not act like a politician then. Be creative instead and discuss what you can contribute with or what else that are positive for the nature.

Janne

[Yann]

Hi!!

Well I think the problem is far more complicated than this...

Remember... Ecology is a rich country preoccupation... really easy to think about saving nature when everyday is filled with at least 3 good meals full of energy and proteins...now I am not so sure your views would be like that if you were in the situation of a farmer or fisherman that have just barely enough to offer a roof and anything to eat for his family...

Surely there are likely other directions...but in a country where a good number of the population really has a hard time to survive...and asking for food, job, money, insurance, health and some sort of confort standard like any european or north american middle class person...I am not so sure that they will see the saving the Amazon rain forest as a priority...like I said...it is sometimes easy to criticate a decision from a country while ours hasn't been doing all they can do "save the environnement" or to help protect some indigenous species... notice for exemple that every threatened species on our soil is totally forbidden to pocess, raise, breed or whatever, we can't say that much has been done to protect hîts biotope...just a small part still exist compare to what formerly exist...now why being angry to a brasilian government that is exactly doing the same we have made...

Also remember... this is a hobby, here, in many part of the world... this is real luxury...
My 2 cents!!
Cheers
Yann

[Bas Pels]

I fully agree Yann

Andtherefore I don't understand why brasil does not export more fishes. exporting more fishes would mean more people have means to survive

The claim to bann export to protect the fishes, but, as you explained, this is hardly understandable

Therefore, I feel the opinions posted above - the ban would be inspired to hide something - could very wel be putting the finger on the dirty spot