PANAQUE..WASTE!!

[camell]

HI! FIRST...MY ENGLISH IS SO POOR...
I HAVE ONE PANAQUE NIGROLINEATUS IN A 200 LITER TANK WITH TWO FILTERS:
1) CASCADE AQUACLEAR 200 WITH EPHISUSTRAT DE EHEIM AND A SPONGE..
2) INTERNAL FILTERNAL WITH THE SAME EFISUSTRAT..

YOU ASK ME? WHERE IS THE PROBLEM??

THE FILTERS ARE CONTINOUSLY OBTURATED/SATURATED!!

WHAT CAN I DO?
AND..IF I TAKE OUT THE SUSTRAT? IS CORRECT PUT JUST ONLY THE PUMP AND THE CASCADE WITH THE SPONGES IN THE TWO FILTERS?

THANKS

[Barbie]

First and foremost, welcome to the board. Second, could you please reach over and tap that caps lock key? Typing all in caps is considered yelling and generally frowned upon ;).

I'm not exactly sure what your question is, but if you're asking whether you can use just sponges and the substrate for filtration, the answer is yes. Panaques can definitely chew their way through a large volume of driftwood, given the opportunity. Frequent water changes and filter rinsing can definitely make the problem not as noticeable, but it is a typical side effect.

Barbie

[drpleco]

I've started removing the sponges from most of my filters and haven't noticed a decrease in water clarity at all. Using just ceramic, waste tends to dissolve rather than become trapped as in a sponge. So then it's more efficiently removed by water changes. I change 50% twice a week on my pleco tanks, though, so I don't think this would work well on a "standard" 30% or less per month WC schedule.

But the point is, I try not to use sponges for pleco tanks because they clog up too quickly.

[camell]

thanks!
but i'dont have a canister filter...just one internal and a cascade..!!
what can i do? is a lot of waste in alllll the display!!!
the two filters with...sponge or sustrate... what??
thanks

[Yann]

Hi!!

The first problem is a Panaque nigrolineatus has nothing to do in a 200liter tank!!!
They grow well over 30cm...
Panaque eat wood...a lot of it... which means they evacuate the undigested... which can rapidly fill your filters...
Possibly your filtration is not sufficient anyway...
I would really reconsider housing a Panaque in such tank and under such conditions...

Cheers
Yann

[camell]

for me is enought...in fact a lot of people have more plecos in less liters..in this site..but is my point of view..remind that my fish is alone in the aquarium..!!

thanks

[pLaurent1251]

I have one 13cm (5") bristlenose in a 75L (20 gal) tank. This is my first pleco, and I have never seen one fish make so much mess.

I had to throw out my Bio Wheel, and have to change the water, vacuum the gravel and clean the filter twice a week. But I love him anyway!

[Haavard Stoere]

I generally think that many large filters makes fish-keeping easier. If circulation and filtration is sufficient dirt won`t settle on the bottom, but eventually find its way to the filters. The filters needs to be large and plentiful enough to run for several weeks or months without cleaning.

[Jools]

I have various species of snails in the aquarium with my

Panaque changae

, they appear to break up the waste so it takes longer to clog the filters (but clog they do, in a 3'x15"x15" tank, with just wood and 3 fish, the fluval 3 filter will clog in under two weeks if left alone).

A bigger tank and certainly more filtration is your solution.

Jools

[racoll]

You want one of these, a Fluval FX5. A big powerful filter, for big and messy fish.

[camell]

thanks!
is too muchhh for 200 liters!! and very expensive...!!
bye

[racoll]

is too muchhh for 200 liters!!

Oh no its not! I have one on a 200L tank with only three Panaque L204.

I consider a filter of this size to be a necessity rather than a luxury for Panaque.

[apistomaster]

I found a way to make my 3 messy Panaque sp. L204 work for me.
Their tank is under filtered if it was meant to be a display tank but racoll, Dr. Gold and H. Stoere all had good ideas on dealing with the messes Panaque make.

I just let mine sort of slide into grunginess which seems to help support good Yellow Shrimp production(Gold Neocardina heteropoda) and some wild Betta sp. "Mahachai" are breeding in this set up. Ceratophyllum submersum is close to filling all the water column. This endangered and so far undescribed Betta sp. is a bubble nester which comes from slightly brackish water with a higher pH than most wild Betta prefer. The Betta fry find enough microorganisms present to get them to the brine shrimp nauplii feeding stage with no special feedings necessary. I use ~1 tsp rock salt/gal. This Betta sp. lends itself well to species multigenerational breeding tanks. Males display but don't rip each other to pieces like common Betta splendens.
This seems to be OK with Panaque L204 since it doesn't come from the soft acid water typical of most other SA Plecos.
I use as many synergistic methods as I can to get the most out of my limited aquarium spaces.
Image of Betta sp. "Mahachai" http://i.pbase.com/o4/57/606057/1/63521 ... Blue2a.jpg

[Haavard Stoere]

Very nice indeed It is always nice to be able to make several species coexist and benefit from each other. I use both shrimps and snails myself. Snail and shrimp poo is also very good for supporting lower life forms for small fish fry.

[sidguppy]

funny Panaque

well it's a simple quotation, really.

wood & food go in 1 end......poop comes out of the other.

you can compare big suckers likew these to a horse.
now I don't know if any of you HAS a horse, but if you do, you're used to poop.

few people that have horses complain about the fact that they produce a load of.....horse manure
mucking out stables might not be the best job in the world, but riding the beastie makes up for it, doesn't it?

now back to panaque and other big pleco's: IF you choose such a fish, you essentially choose for a load of pleco manure
part of the job. imagine the algae growth and sheer amount of uneaten crap in there if the Panaque wasn't in the tank at all......

handly little turds and stringy stuff, so easily vacuumed away with a hose and a bucket.
is it me or isn't there any problem whatsoever?

I prefer sucking up easily collected poop with a hose and bucket over scraping the hole tank with a blunt razor and scratching the glass any day myself.

[pLaurent1251]

I prefer sucking up easily collected poop with a hose and bucket over scraping the hole tank with a blunt razor and scratching the glass any day myself

Absolutely! I actually enjoy sucking up the huge piles and cleaning out the filter while thinking "There goes all the algae that used to ruin my plants!"

It takes 10 minutes and although I know more powerful filtration would eliminate the poop, I have fish in the tank that do not tolerate strong currents. This way, everyone is happy, especially me.

[camell]

please! i'm going crazy with the filtration in my aquarium!!
instead of this...i love this fish!! is wonderful!!
please help me with photos!!

please

[Yann]

Hi!!!

One possible idea could be this one:

http://www.aquarioplus.com/images/filtre_sec_humide.jpg

It is a dry humide filter...commonly used in tanks with big fish that produced a lot of waste!!!
That would be possibly the only affordable solution I could possibly see...
But considered what as been said before... it is not because you don't like it... that we won't say it...
a bigger tank with a better and bigger filtration

Cheers
Yann

[sidguppy]

agree with that

a Panaque nigrolineatus in a 200L tank will outgrow and outpoop both tank and filtration.

it's like keeping a horse wellfed in a small 6th story appartment.
pretty soon you'll be hipdeep in turds.

a better choice for that tanksize would be Chaetostoms thomasi or Panaque maccus or Ancistrus spp or so.
they stay small (3-4", 8-10cm) and the waste problem is similar scaled down.

this fish will need a 400 liters tank soon enough and an evenm bigger one if he goes for the whole 30 cm/1 foot in length.

[camell]

thanks to everybody!!
in my point of view 200 liter for just one medium panaque is correct..! but opinions are opinions!! and i respect this .
i saw in singapur and in vietman panaques in a 100 liters...and no one..four or five!
you can see this in other forum..
the new..i buy a canister filter!!!

bye

[Bas Pels]

not intending to outsmart anyone, in Eastern asia 75 % waterchanges, daily or even twice a day, are normal

Sill, I would not consider that asan example for fish keeping. Remember, it will take a while, but such a Panague will weight a kilo or more

[MatsP]

thanks to everybody!!
in my point of view 200 liter for just one medium panaque is correct..! but opinions are opinions!! and i respect this .
i saw in singapur and in vietman panaques in a 100 liters...and no one..four or five!
you can see this in other forum..
the new..i buy a canister filter!!!

bye

If by seeing four Panaque in 100 liter, you mean seeing them in shops in that volume of water, I don't doubt it. Shops stock much heavier than we would at home, for several reasons:
1. Stock is rotated in a shop, so fish are (usually) only there for a short period of time.
2. Shops often have LARGE filtration systems, and/or do large volume water changes frequently.
3. Some shops simply don't care about the living conditions of the fish as long as they can sell the fish.

Other forums may have members less concerned about the welfare of their fishes. My "standard" for keeping fish is that the fish should have at least 4L x 2L x 2L - where L is the length of the fish. If your 200 liter tank is roughly standard sized, that means that it will be OK for a 15cm/6" Panaque, give or take a little bit.

--
Mats

--
Mats

[pLaurent1251]

saw in singapur and in vietman panaques in a 100 liters...and no one..four or five!

People keep fish in many inappropriate ways that end up stunting their growth, shortening their lives and leaving them open to disease. We should want our fish to thrive and not just survive.

Keeping 4 of these panaques in 100 liters is very inhumane and wrong, IMO.

[camell]

hello, at the end I decided to buy a filter and external! I am very happy .. but now a lot of waste (driftwood) board at the entrance to the filter.
are there any trick to avoid saturation of the inlet?
to curb a little even the waste... I was thinking of putting large gravel (canto rodado boulder? is correct this word..jajaj) to contain it a little more? what they think?

please, if you can, i need photos because for me understand english is a little difficult !!
thanks

and remember my english... jajaa

[apistomaster]

I'm sorry I don't have a photograph to show you one type of filter strainer or what is also called an intake pre-filter that I make out of a filter media bag filled with Eheim Ehfi-Fix is pulled over the end of the intake tube and secured in place. This will collect a lot of the debris without causing much reduction in flow. A pre-filter made of fish safe sponge is easier to make or buy but tends to clog rapidly and greatly reduce the flow before that happens.

The Eheim makes an excellent accessory that may be adapted to work with most any canister filter. On the right, in the photo shown in the link below, the pre-filter module is what you want. It at least may help to inspire you to create something similar from materials easily obtained locally. The Eheim Pe-filter module sells for only $13 US.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... 3614&rel=1