Overstocked or not? What else could be added?

[nvcichlids]

Hello,
I have a 20 gallon L (30"x12"x12") and I currently am keeping 3x L129's in there along with some 1-1.5" apistos. Its filtration is by a aquaclear 30 powerhead and filter attachment. I was wondering if there is another species that could be kept in the tank aswell? the entire back of the tank is covered in malasian driftwood so (30x4x12 is covered in driftwood). Any help or suggestions would be great!

NV

[nvcichlids]

Here is the link to the info of the tank to help judge if it is overstocked, fine how it is, or more can be added. Please chime in guys!

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =4&t=23847

[sidguppy]

I'd say it's already crowded with all those plec's in there.
not a number of fishes issue, but a same niche and territory issue.

but I'm lousy with numbers. I prefer the Latin names.

why not ditch a few plecs and add corydoras or something?

[nvcichlids]

well as of right now, the L201's are just under 2" (more like 1.5") and the L129's are about 2-2.5" and there are a TON of holes in the driftwood, so I am not particalarily (that was spelt wrong and I am sorry) worried about each's niche. I did , however, purchase some red eyed tetras today and that brought out the apistos for some more open swimming, maybe it will do the same for the plecos, and maybe the L129's will find the breeding tube?? (hint hint to fishies!!)

Like I have been saying, as soon as my 33 gallon L is set up, the L201's will be moved into there so they can have plent of space to breed with my balzanii ( and yest I know most people say the balzanii's prefer cooler water, but in the recent readings I have been doing, it actually has been prolonging their life to be kept in 78ish degree F water... so I will keep them up with some plecos.)

Thanks for your advice Sidguppy

[apistomaster]

In most of the Hypancistrus profiles in the Cat-elog there is a recommendation to allow about 12" X 12" for each adult Hypancistrus spp.
It is a good rule of thum to go by. Maybe a little conservative when applied to a spawning group of 1 male: 2 female or 2 male: 4 Females.
I would say for the trio a 20 Long 12 X30 inch foot print is plenty of room and for the larger group 12 X 36 inch foot print would work well.

But as has been pointed out, when you are keeping fish that are closely related and similar in adult sizes, they all occupy the same niches and then I would say that allowing 12 X 12 inches per fish is a very accurate and valid recommendation, assuming an abundance of cover and caves.

Any of Apistogramma spp are not only another bottom dwelling species, but also need and are attracted to the same places the plecos will prefer and the Apistogramma will always loose in a contest for a particular spot. The Apistogramma females are unable to defend a spawning cave against any small pleco that decides it want that spot. There goes your Apistogramma eggs. Apistogramma living with any breeding catfish will not be a threat to the catfish guarded spawning cave nor are they likely to harm any released pleco fry.
If you want to still try them together I recommend that you add some small clay pots for the Apistogramma spp. Make an opening in the top of the inverted flower pot too small for any adult pleco and no larger than is necessary for access of the female Apistogramma. The male Apistogramma does not ave to be able to enter the breeding cave. The males of all the Apistogramma spp I have bred are able to fertilize the eggs during spawning by releasing the sperm near the narrow opening of the inverted flower pot and will fan sperm laden water into the females cave and the eggs will get fertilized. Trust me on this. Other wise don't expect many Apistogramma eggs/larvae to last long enough to reach their free swimming stage. They become fairly safe from the normal foraging and exploring the plecos do once the Apisto fry have become free swimming.
I have bred Apistogramma with plecos unintentionally without taking the precautions I outlined but the number of fry that survived was very small. I would not include any pleco with any Apistogramma I wanted to breed; it's just the wrong way to breed any Apistogramma spp.
One trio of any Apistogramma spp per 20 Long is the most I would try.
I have raised and still am raising many species of Apistogramma and other SA Dwarf Cichlids. Most will do fine with a few harmless dither fish. I use Corydoras habrosus and a few Nannostomus eques most frequently as my choice for dither fish with Apistogramma spp and other SA Dwarf Cichlids. These species do not present any real threat to the eggs or fry of SA Dwarf Cichlids. Small plecos are almost the most perfect predator on Apisto eggs one can come up with.

[nvcichlids]

Thank you Larry for the info, I will consider this once I get another tank set up here. I am guessing I will do the L129's and the red eye tetras in one tank and the apisto trio and L201's in the other.

Thank you so much!