L-134 breeding.. NEED HELP!!!

[plec0]

Ok I need advice on what the problem may be.I got 4 - 134's
2 males and 2 females.
they are right around 3.50 inches and 2 of the 134's are very hairy around the tale thus I believe i have 2 males or either 2 very hairy females by looking at various 134 pics of males and females.
Ive had them for about a year .They are kept in a 20 gallon long tank and have 3 caves in their tank. the 2 females are very plump and look to be carrying eggs. they tend to venture in out and of caves almost daily. the males tend to stay around the driftwood and go in and out of caves daily as well. but they never go into a cave when a female is around the entrance of the cave. Ive let their water go dirty and hot for a month then about 3 weeks ago a did a water change and the temp dropped from 80 degrees to 77.4 by my digital thermometer. Im puzzled as to why they wont lay eggs and why the males are avoiding them. they are on a mixed diet and are eating very well. during the dry season i simulated i kept them from eating but twice a week and now i tried the rainy season I feed them daily. their are only fish in tank. their isnt no community fish present just them. Any answers or suggestions would greatly be appreciated. thanks for your time and answers

-chris

[Birger]

One thing you do not mention is filtration and your water turnover rate...this could have a definite impact.

I realize you say the females are plump and so on but while you are at it what are you feeding?

These may help give you some answers.

Birger

[plec0]

filtration is a wall mount 60 gallon whipsers and fluval 200 and a eheim aquaball the small one .. then i have a cannister filterits a rena xp 1.. alot of filtration cause I did at one point have 7 in there.. and im thinking at moving the other 3 back in there.. i t

[cmstwc]

Good luck! I dont have too much to offer. In fact, we are at a very similar situation. My tank is 30G with 1male 2female (lost my alpha male during dry season attempt )I tried almost every thing, ie dry/wet season, change temp, switch light, add more filtration, drop conductivity significantly, etc. and still no luck. My female is really really gravid. I guess I just have to wait for them.

[apistomaster]

Patience, persistence and some luck are qualities all would be pleco breeders must cultivate.
There is no magic formula that guarantees success.
My L134 began spawning this time last year after a 2 year wait. Then they stopped spawning early last September.
They have just resumed spawning.
I worried for six months that they would never spawn again.
I allowed a simulated dry season for most of this winter then began making frequent water changes in January.

[plec0]

thanks I was waiting on my friend Larry to answer , I knew he had some answers cause hes bred the 134's successfully. Ive bred L-333's and L-066's but these guys just are darn hard . I keep them well dieted on spirulina bits w/ garlic and spirulina brine shrimp bits. Algae wafers. Frozen mysis and frozen daphnia. also put in some rich mix flake food they seem to have taken a liking too as well. They eat everything I offer them. The males also look very plump and healthy as well they are all litle fat pigs and I figured since they were already 3 inches when I had purchased them and with adding they have been with me for a long time now they are mature enough to breed. At first I thought I had 4 females, but after close imspection and studying their characteristics Ive concluded I have atleast 1 male if not 2. Judging by the hair on their tales. two of them have it and the other 2 that are very very plump dont. Ill try and dont disturb them and get some pics while they are out and feeding along with pics of their habitat. Thanks all for your kind and quick answers and I'll just have to play the waiting game with them. Im in no hurry and was just a bit worried something I was doing was wrong and causing them to act this way.Should I take out a cave and have just two in there ? I got 3 more Im putting in with them this friday that are same size and they are a male and 2 females.hey larry when u see this shoot me your phone # again I lost it when my cell phone was stolen. sorry I havent kept in touch with you and to see how my old 333's are doing for you buddy.

[apistomaster]

I only feed my L134 breeders 4 foods.
Earth worm sticks, frozen blood worms and live black worms. Oh, once in awhile I give them Tetra Color Bits but that is infrequent.
They are mainly fed earth worm sticks and black worms. I raise the fry on the sticks until they can also eat black worms.
I buy 6 lbs of black worms a month.

What I would try is a trio or 2 trios if you have them. The females seem to be very competitive when it comes to getting the attention of the males. I give each male a cave and let the females make do with what cover they can find around some drift wood.
I also grow a cover of floating Hornwort and culture Cherry shrimp in the breeding tank. If nothing else the shrimp help clean up scattered pieces of earth worm sticks and I sell enough shrimp to pay for my earth worm sticks. All my pleco breeding tanks are set up like that.
Many more people around the world are reporting successful spawning of L134. I don't think they are much different in level of difficulty than L333, L66, L260 or H. zebra. Think about selling them. That usually works for me. Maybe give them more live black worms.
Live worms always helps me get my catfish to spawn.

So far the L333 you sent have never bred. They spent about 8 months in a holding tank. It has only been 3 months since I set them up in a proper spawning tank. They are set up in a 40 gal breeder tank along with Yellow shrimp. I have seen fresh battle scars on the females and that has been traditionally a sign of an imminent or actual spawn. Often within 2 weeks of seeing scrapes on the females I discover fry outside the caves. I do expect them to spawn but I may have to threaten to sell them first.
At least I see the shrimp. I am becoming very familiar with the back half of plecos. That is about all that ever shows outside a cave.

[plec0]

sorry to hear larry of u wanting to sell them if u do let me know ill take them back.buy them from you.

[Luka]

I have the same problem as plec0. I have 2 groups of L134, 1M/2F in each tank, they are mature, females full with eggs but no spawns. Last month one group look like they will spawn any minute, male was guarding cave, “fawning” and one female was visiting him regularly. I have tried to leave them alone, not to disturb them. But nothing happened. After 2-3 weeks I have changed 1/3 of water with cold one and after that they stopped completely. Female returned to her side of tank and male stopped the “fawning”. It was such a disappointment after all hope.
Now I`ve heard they usually spawn from March to September, so in a while I try again dry/wet season again. I don`t know what else to do.

From my experience I`ve found L134 much harder to spawn than hypancistrus species. I have spawned L270, L260 with hardly any effort on my side.

Plec0, I don`t think Larry wants to sell his plecos. He has meant you should just think about selling yours and they might spawn, you know – like Murphy`s law.

[plec0]

yeah I figured thats what he was implicating. Back last august I traded him the 333's he was talking about. They have spawned for me with almost no effort. I have about 6 fry left over from the last spawn before I gave the 333's to him. Couple are almost 2 inches in size now and its amazing how much faster they grow vs. other hypans sp. ie. the L-046 zebra grow very slow. 6 months old zebra fry are barely reaching an inch in size.I got a male king tiger that Ive had for only 2 years and got as a fry and he's almost touching the 5 inch mark. very huge boy same with 2 females Ive got full of eggs hoping to get a spawn from my 66's very soon, bad weather is heading my way and suppose to storm for the entire weekend , hoping this will trigger a spawn and my 134's will watch on as well. Im doing a nice water change for them today and dropping temp from 79.6 degrees to 77 degrees and was thinking about buying a R/O water unit cause I just use tap water straight out of faucet and the pH IN MY TANKS GENERALLY stay between 6.7 and 7.3 .

[apistomaster]

Threatening to sell fish that aren't cooperating by spawning was meant in jest. It has sometimes happened to work out that fish I was about to give up on have spawned.

I believe I am the one who originally suggested that L134 may spawn from early spring to the fall. That has been the pattern of my fish.
Once I have F1 L134 spawning I will have a better idea whether they are seasonal or not. For now, it is just a hypothesis.
It also appears to me that L134 need to be about 3 to 3-1/2 years old before they begin spawning but again, just my hypothesis.
I know my breeders were about 2-3/4 inches TL when they arrived and began spawning 2 years later at 3-1/4 inches TL.
I have kept about 30 of the young from last year for future breeders and it won't be until I manage to breed them that I will feel like I understand them better.

Barbie told me a couple years ago when I was beginning to work with the Peckoltia and Hypancistrus to just be patient and they will spawn. I pass the same advice along to everyone else who is frustrated so far with their attempts to coax plecos into spawning.
I just discovered that the heater in the L333 set up wasn't working right and the maximum temperature was only 77*F. That is too cool. I replaced the heater last night and set it for 84*F. This could make all the difference.
Aquarium heaters and thermometers are some of the worst junk sold in the hobby.

[MatsP]

Threatening to sell fish that aren't cooperating by spawning was meant in jest. It has sometimes happened to work out that fish I was about to give up on have spawned.

Quite likely because you no longer pay as much attention to them, and they feel more relaxed about the situation

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

Mat, you are correct. That is one of the reasons I raise a broad variety of fish. It spreads my attention out so I don't obsess over any particular species spawning. Something else is always spawning and keeping me occupied.
I have always liked SA fish best and fortunately many of the most desirable fish to keep and breed come from SA.

I also like the SE Asian wild bubblenesting Betta spp.
I set up one "Nano-tank',a 10 gal planted tank stocked with a few Betta mahachai, 4 T. espei, 12 Boraras maculata(Dwarf Spotted "Rasbora") and I just found 4 weird looking Kuhlii loaches, Pangio oblongata. They are skinny brown kuhlis. Also keeping Cherry shrimp in the tank.
I have always wanted to succeed in breeding the Boraras maculata, one of the smallest invertebrates known.
Pangio oblongata have been bred and I plan on trying to do them some day. I once had some Pangio kuhlii produce a few fry when I set them up in their own tank with about one inch of boiled Canadian peat moss. I just kept a constant supply of live Tubifex(real thing) available to them. I did not know they had spawned until I discovered about a dozen small ones while taking their set up down.
That was 40 years ago.

[Bas Pels]

Mat, you are correct. That is one of the reasons I raise a broad variety of fish. It spreads my attention out so I don't obsess over any particular species spawning. Something else is always spawning and keeping me occupied.

Thank you!!!!

You just explained to me why I had this unexplainable need to add a tank or two every now and then

Subcounciously I knew it was to the benefit of the fishes involved

[plec0]

well i just got in 3 more 134's they look to be about 3 inches. not quite as big as my current colony. But i requested a male and 2 females they came from snookn21 off aquabid gotta hand it to him did a excellent job on packaging and picking me out some good ones. Also got in 3 L-066's a huge male and 2 females that appear to be full of eggs as he told me he would send. They just got put into their tanks and already showing great color. I got nothing but patience with my 134's and I have 5 L-046's now and they appear to be up to something a female that looks plump keeps going in and out of one of the males cave several times a week and stays in there with him for hours at a time, I checked last night and didnt see no eggs yet. but im keeping my fingers crossed!!!