L411 Breeding report

[st24rsap]

I have a group of L411 monte dourado that are currently breeding, as they are listing as breeding unreported it has been suggested i make a post here about them. They are currently spawning succesfully every few weeks, sometimes 2 spawns a week from different females. I obtained part of the group from a fellow breeder who had been succesfully breeding them for quite some time.

Group info - 8 adults. believed to be 3 males & 5 females
Temp - 28-30c
Feeding - Frozen bloodworm, Hikari carnivore wafers, earthworm pellets, bloodworm pellets
Tank size 120L
Tank Flow - 600lphr external filter & Under gravel filter
Water change - 10% every other day

heres some pics of the adults and the most recent fry




alpha male can be seen in the cave with eggs in above pic

[TP]

Hi

Could you give some further information such as average number of eggs per clutch, time for eggs to hatch, time for yolk sac to disappear and fry start eating, anything you do that may specifically trigger a spawn or anything else you think may be useful. The more information that can be added to the Cat-elog the better.

Cheers

Tony

[MatsP]

Congratulations on the spawn!

I will move this into the Loricariidae forum section for further discussions, and update the L411 data-sheet to give a brief explanation.

Maybe this can ALSO be turned into a Shane's world Article.

Edit: Also, if you like to send the pictures to Jools, he can add them to the Cat-eLog. See Cool Stuff -> Contribute, I think it's Item 3 that descibes how you submit photos for Cat-eLog publication - don't forget to say what they are photos of in the e-mail.

--
Mats

[Jools]

Update applied. I'll add the pics in due course.

Jools

[st24rsap]

I will get the photos emails to Jools tonight, as for other info heres a bit more

Female trapping time - On average females are trapped for 2 days, all actual spawns have happened during the day and not at night time

Average number of eggs per clutch - 30-40 large eggs, similar to other hypans such as the L066

Time for eggs to hatch - Between 4 and 7 days depending on water temp

Time for yolk sac to disappear - Approx 10 days depending on water temp

Fry start eating - Fry start to be fed the day before yolk sack is gone, fed twice a day on crushed Tetra Doromin, earthworm pellets & carnivore wafers.

Fry appear to be slow growers.

[Darren Dalton]

Well done and congratulations st24.
I am breeding these myself at the moment, but i'm having trouble with the fry.
Can i ask whats your water chemistry for raising the fry?
How old is your oldest fry and what size?

[st24rsap]

Well done and congratulations st24.
I am breeding these myself at the moment, but i'm having trouble with the fry.
Can i ask whats your water chemistry for raising the fry?
How old is your oldest fry and what size?

i have just got rid of my oldest fry, they were approx 2 - 2.5" and prob 8 months old. at the moment i have probably 100 spread across different tanks with another clutch in the cave with alpha male at the moment.

i have not had any problems with the fry, out of the last 4 clutchs i have only lost 3 fry within the first month of them being in a trap and the others in the tanks seem to be doing great, growing slow but feeding well.

ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 30 ish
ph - 7.2
tds - 350ppm

i dont know the kh & gh values as i never test for it

i find best way of raising the fry is to place them into a breeding trap almost as soon as they have hatched. leave them in there for a month or so and feed tetra doromina (brilliant for fry) and other finely crushed food.

[Darren Dalton]

Thank for that.
I had a feeling my fry were not growing properly. 1 1/4" after 6 months.
Most would die within a couple of weeks. They would go pale shortly before dieing. See photo.

I have tried them in a hatchery in the main tank for the first month and i have also tried them in a tank of there own.
There has been a better survival rate using the hatchery.
Even when i raise them in there own tank and place some fry of L66, Ancistrus Claro and some Galaxy rasbora. The only one's i have the trouble with are the L411.
The water i tried them in ranged from PH6- 6.5, GH <1dh- 2.2, TDS 55- 80 ppm and temp. 26.5- 28c .
Water pressure has been taken in to account. Water is added the same time as left over food is syphoned out.
First food Tetra tabimin, then brine shrimp, cyclops, lobster eggs, microworms and verious ground up wafers.

I will try the Doramin. Thanks

[st24rsap]

i really dont know what to suggest, from what you say your not doing anything wrong. i have my L411 fry also with L066 and have no problems, its odd that it is only your L411 that go pale and die off....... are the parents wild caught, only thing i could possibily think of is that the parents are related and maybe causeing the fry to be weaker than usual maybe??? im not sure what else to suggest

[Darren Dalton]

It's a bit of a strange one. As far as i am aware they are wild caught.
It dose seem to be out of my hands why they are dieing. I have taught about the parents, or one of them been the problem. So when i get a chance i will borrow a male or female and see if it is a problem that comes from one of the parents.
I am busy for the next month so after that i will give them a bit more attention.

Thanks again st24 and good luck with yours.