Lucipinnis Deaths

[fridayman]

I've lost 2 Lucipinnis this evening and another 1 is starting to display similar symptoms to the 2 that have died. When I got home they were vertical, swimming a little bit looking like they were drunk and eventually just floating to the bottom (still vertical). At first I though that it was lack of oxygen because my spray bar detached from the rear of the tank and sank, but with everything fixed and a 50% water change they didn't get any better. The only other thing that has changed is the new filter I put in yesterday - I replaced a 105 with a 205, swapping the media over (and adding a bit extra). I soaked all the parts of the new filter (except the motor bit) in very hot water before I installed it too. Physically there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with them. I'm completely stumped.

[Richard B]

Did you soak the media in hot water as well?

It would be worth checking the nitrate levels as this sounds typical of high nitrates affecting lucipinnis - it wouln't hurt to add an extra airstone & if ever in doubt, add something like BluStart from ferplast when changing filters over etc

[fridayman]

No, the media went straight over with mucky stuff and all. I did fit new filter sponges though.

My water parameters post water change are:
nitrate - 5
nitrite - 0
ph - 7.8/8
ammonia - possibly 10-15ppm (test kit not 100% accurate)

It could be that a lot of the bacteria was in the sponges that I replaced. Could the nitrate climb in 24hrs?

When I saw the spraybar had dropped I added an airstone straight away.

[fridayman]

I've put the 3rd one out of its misery too.

[Richard B]

No, the media went straight over with mucky stuff and all. I did fit new filter sponges though.

My water parameters post water change are:
nitrate - 5
nitrite - 0
ph - 7.8/8
ammonia - possibly 10-15ppm (test kit not 100% accurate)

It could be that a lot of the bacteria was in the sponges that I replaced. Could the nitrate climb in 24hrs?

When I saw the spraybar had dropped I added an airstone straight away.

I think your test kit might not be right - you shouldn't get a zero nitrite reading if you have a reading for ammonia - any ammonia reading is very bad indeed anyway - i'd do a 30% water change daily for a few days & also check the tapwater to make sure the water company haven't messed something up

[fridayman]

I'll pick up a new test kit tomorrow morning, and also test the tap water parameters. My test kit must be 2 years old... This has been an expensive lesson learnt!

Thanks for your help.

[MatsP]

If you have 10ppm ammonia, then you should be able to smell the ammonia - and the fish would be dead immediately, I'd say. Are you sure you are using the right scale?

--
Mats

[fridayman]

If you have 10ppm ammonia, then you should be able to smell the ammonia - and the fish would be dead immediately, I'd say. Are you sure you are using the right scale?

--
Mats

You're right, it's 0.1 not 10. The test kit scale only starts at 0.25 and it isn't quite as dark as the 0.25, but darker than 0.

[fridayman]

No more deaths this morning, but 3 more are displaying symptoms. I've done another 20% water change.

I have no idea what else to do??

[andywoolloo]

and you are remembering the dechlorinator right? And is the water going back in as close to same temp as water in tank? what all do you add to the tap water besides dechlor?

I cannot imagine what's going on? how long have you had the lucipinnis? what size tank what other fish? Any new foods being fed?

your readings are A .10 Ni 0 NA 5 ppm? All you did was change out a filter?

Alll I can think is to do a 50% water change, are you using tap water? and dechlor? and this all started with a change of filter? You rinsed the new sponges you added in right? You mentioned adding sponges. Does the tank smell strange? You get no electric current feeling when you put your hand in there? Does your tap water seem normal? I am wondering if maybe your town has a water issue? does it smell the same and feel the same? I mean not slimy feeling from the tap?

I feel terrible for your synos!

[fridayman]

and you are remembering the dechlorinator right? And is the water going back in as close to same temp as water in tank? what all do you add to the tap water besides dechlor?

I cannot imagine what's going on? how long have you had the lucipinnis? what size tank what other fish? Any new foods being fed?

your readings are A .10 Ni 0 NA 5 ppm? All you did was change out a filter?

Alll I can think is to do a 50% water change, are you using tap water? and dechlor? and this all started with a change of filter? You rinsed the new sponges you added in right? You mentioned adding sponges. Does the tank smell strange? You get no electric current feeling when you put your hand in there? Does your tap water seem normal? I am wondering if maybe your town has a water issue? does it smell the same and feel the same? I mean not slimy feeling from the tap?

I feel terrible for your synos!

Yes, I always use dechlor and tiny bit of Seachem cichlid salts (maybe qtr teaspoon per 20l). The water I put in is usually a bit cooler than the tank by 2 or 3 degrees.

The tank has been running without a single hiccup for about 18 months now. The water smells fine and I don't think there is an electrical short.

At first I though that maybe swapping the matrix media but replacing the sponges may have had something to do with it, but I did a 50% water change within 24hrs (last night) of swapping filters, and another 20% this morning and the fish only seem to be getting slowly worse. I bought the filter off ebay and now I'm wondering if it was diseased or got cleaning products on it..? (Which is why I rinsed and soaked it in very hot water.)

I have now tried taking the Purigen out of the filter just in case that has somehow had something to do with this (I've been using Purigen on all my tanks for about a year now).

It is the worst feeling watching them dying slowly like this...

[fridayman]

Oh, and I also have 7X 2" bristlenose juvies in there, and 10X 1" cyp.leptosoma juvies, that aren't showing any signs of stress or disease at all. There are still about 10 synos in the tank. It's a 3ft tank, running with the spray bar on the 205, a very small eheim internal (stuffed with poly wool) for water movement and to polish the water, and 2 airstones at the moment.

[andywoolloo]

strange that only the lucipinnis are affected?

[Birger]

strange that only the lucipinnis are affected?

I find that my lucipinnis are the first to show any sign of distress out of all my cats even to normal water changes... all tangies I think feel it quick, I would imagine probably due to the fairly stable nature of the lake.

Birger

[drpleco]

my lucipinnis are very sensitive to chloramines and I can tell when the water company messes with the water supply. Perhaps something changed in your water and you didn't know to use enough chlorine/chloramine remover during the water change?

[fridayman]

Well I've lost 6 so far, but at least none of the rest were showing any symptoms when I left for work this morning.

I re-tested the water this morning, and all the parameters are now perfect.

[Richard B]

Well I've lost 6 so far, but at least none of the rest were showing any symptoms when I left for work this morning.

I re-tested the water this morning, and all the parameters are now perfect.

It's great the water is now tip-top but please keep a very close eye on things as the effects of poor water can harm the fish & they take a while to fully recover, even a number of weeks, even in perfect conditions & some still don't make it.

I my bigger tank i can see lucipinnis acting "just slightly off normal" & know i need to water change sooner than scheduled as there is a build up of nitrate which they react to before any other fish.

[fridayman]

I'm keeping a VERY close eye now! They still aren't feeding normally, but none of them look like they are drunk or lying on their sides anymore. Fingers crossed that the worst is over now. I think this has been the single most harrowing experience that I've had in all the time that I have kept fish.

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice.

[DJRansome]

I agree with Birger and others. My Synodontis are my early warning fish for ammonia or nitrite in the water. And once you have survived a spike (I had one in a quarantine tank one time), the Synodontis still display symptoms for a long time. It's like they want to punish you by making you feel guilty!

[Richard B]

I agree with Birger and others. My Synodontis are my early warning fish for ammonia or nitrite in the water. And once you have survived a spike (I had one in a quarantine tank one time), the Synodontis still display symptoms for a long time. It's like they want to punish you by making you feel guilty!

Actually this is a very good analagy

[Richard B]

I agree with Birger and others. My Synodontis are my early warning fish for ammonia or nitrite in the water. And once you have survived a spike (I had one in a quarantine tank one time), the Synodontis still display symptoms for a long time. It's like they want to punish you by making you feel guilty!

Actually this is a very good analagy

- it's like over-doing it with alcohol; when the alcohol is removed, you can still suffer the effects for days afterwards

[andywoolloo]

any update on your remaining lucipinnis?

I have been a bit paranoid of mine ever since reading in this thread how affected they are by the water. Early warning sign fish.