I was about to move my chaetostoma into another tank when I found this!
With a FEMALE guarding the eggs.
I have recently upped the temp to 25 degrees to equalise the tems between the tanks and also have been toping up evaporation loss with local tap water so the ph and hardness would go up.
I had just given up on this project when I found this.
Obviously after taking the photo I replaced all as it was.
Matt
[Mod edit x2: fix image tags --Mats]
Last edited by grokefish on 17 Sep 2009, 23:57, edited 4 times in total.
One more bucket of water and the farce is complete.
I suspect their fast flowing natural environment the fry will feed on microscopic organisms - not sure how to best replicate this??? Adding mulm from a mature tank, a rock with algal growth from a mature tank, (which should harbour such microrganisms) or maybe the eggwhite mix painted on a rock...maybe a trial & error job......
Lou: Every young man's fantasy is to have a three-way. Jacob: Yeah not with another fu**!ng guy! Lou: It's still a three-way!
when mine were small from the pet store they ate the rock coated in egg white and smashed up fish food. Of course they weren't fry, but I'd say that saved them. Two of them at a least
I bet your mature tank has things in their for them somewhere. Maybe not enough tho, What about frozen daphnia and plankton and stuff? Can they eat those. Or are they too small.
Matt,
Congratulations.
Is it correct that the male is continuing to provide care for most of the eggs but only some were accidentally ejected from the nest?
I prefer breeding in a dedicated spawning tank and allow the fry to remain in the breeding tank until the are sturdy enough to move to their own grow out tank. If this spawn occurred in a community tank it is often easier and more productive to remove them all before they hatch to a separate hatching tank.
A hanging net breeder is usually a better place to hatch a few loose eggs outside the nest.
If the eggs were spawned in a community tank I prefer to place all the eggs in a bare 10 gal tank with 8 to 10 inches of water from the breeding tank. Provide an aged sponge filter plus an air stone. I add a few drops of methylene blue per gallon to the tank with the eggs.
I would be tempted to put all the eggs in this artificial egg hatching tank set up at this time. Just siphon them out into a container then pour them into the hatching/starter tank.
Most of the eggs I could see appeared to be viable but some looked like broken shells of dead or infertile eggs. Not unusual for there to be a few of these.
The eggs will probably hatch 5-6 days after they were laid. I make a series of partial water changes after they hatch so the water isn't dyed dark blue any more.
It may take another 6-7 days for the fry to absorb all their yolk. I would use Spirulina Sticks and earth worm sticks as their first and primary foods. A ratio of 3:1 Spirulina sticks to earth worm sticks, will get the fry off to a good start and make up their staple grow out diet. These two foods have proven to be a very convenient and nutritious for all pleco and Loricariidae fry for me.
I merely adjust the ratios to best reflect the natural diet of species that are primarily carnivorous or herbivorous.
Once the fry are fry swimming give them some rocks and wood for shelter.
I don't create any egg based glop to plaster on to rocks or bother to grow algae on stones.
I am thinking that Chaetostoma eggs kept in the mid 70's*F will take one more day to hatch and becoming free swimming than the warm water plecos/Sturisoma which are what I have had the most experience with artificial hatching.
Amanda aka bronzefry, has some experience with breeding her Chaetostoma.
Matt,
WOW! Congrats. My breeding was totally accidental and the eggs disappeared as fast as they came. Then, they died due to my inexperience. I'd really like to try them again soon. I've seen eggs w/Ancistrus sp. and L-387s fall out of the nest. They seem to come and get them and do the mad "carwashing" thing and buff them. They seem to know what to do. We're the ones that go crazy. I've also seen female L-387s sitting on eggs-all 3 adults can't be males unless there's something I don't know. Time will tell if they're fertile. Do you have them in a species tank? If so, the next time, you can just leave them to it. They'll figure things out. Just make sure there are plenty of hiding places, rocks, etc. Keep us posted.
Amanda
grokefish wrote:They are in more of a biotope tank with some chaetostma cf.millesi
Thanks
Matt
In that case, I think your best option is to allow nature to take it's course. Most plecos do not harm fry and those that get off to a good start in their home tank tend to grow a little faster than those I have artificially hatched.
Thanks Larry,
The eggs are now scattered all over the tank bottom but strangely enough are being left alone by all the inmates.
You can see the wee fishys developing in the egg but I can't get a good photo.
Matt
One more bucket of water and the farce is complete.
All to do now is wait and learn. If you can, take some notes along the way for things such as pH, hardness, how long it takes the eggs to hatch, etc. It'll keep you from going completely mad. Also remember, this is one of their first attempts(that you've seen). They need to learn, just like we do. It may take them more than once to get the hang of it. Patience is difficult.
Amanda
Matt,
If you would like to save these loose eggs they are easy to suck up with a baster and place in a net breeder. After they have absorbed their yolk and appear to be looking for food you should be able to release them back into the tank and have a reasonable chance of them surviving. They are very vulnerable and helpless until they are free swimming.
Because they should spawn again doesn't mean they would.
Humanity doesn't have a monopoly on perversity.
They have hatched!
Uploading video to you tube as I type!
This is the second time they have bred, last time I only found the fry when they were freeswiming and sucking onto stuff, but again I found them whilst doing a major cleaning operation and I think the shock killed them, that and the lima shovel noses maybe
Any way as soon as the video has finnished uploading I will post again.
Matt
One more bucket of water and the farce is complete.
hi there,
i would definetly suck the fry with a airhose and place them in a in hanging tank supplied with tankwater (airsystem) as this is quite a unique moment to have baby chaetostomas.. soon as their jolksack will be finished you will not be able to feed them correctly!! best is to seperate them to have it unter control.
and I tell you what the males pectoral spines are very thick and his fins have this dark banding on them just like this photo.
The guppy has been removed to my older boys tetra tank.
My camera is crap, it has only autofocus so it keeps focusing on the glass and not what I am trying to focus on. Which really sucks because you can really see the fish developing in the eggs, which are still scattered unmolested all over the tank floor.
Matt
One more bucket of water and the farce is complete.
Jon wrote:i have found that young limnivores, specifically, tend to be difficult to feed in large size aquaria. It is best to put them in an enclosure.
I agree. The Hypancistrus and Peckoltia species I raise fry are easy to get started in the breeding tank since they eat the same foods as I feed the adults and they are attracted to food by smell quickly.
Sturisoma fry seem to do best if kept in the smallest tank that will support the number of fry long enough to move them to the next larger size but still the smallest that will allow more growth and so on. Those left in a large tanks from the beginning never survive.
Sturisoma are probably the most similar species I breed that that I might consider limnivores except like Chaetostoma, they seem to need a good current. Much more so tan the Hypancisrus and Peckoltia fry although I used one power head driven spnge filter in all their tanks the intensity of the currents used are much less than I use with my Sturisoma fry. Chaetostoma wouldn't be happy in water temperatures of 84 to 86*F I keep Sturisoma at.
I'm sure I sound like a broken record but I recommend feeding them Spirulina Sticks and some earth worm sticks, These are excellent conditioning foods but they also soften to a mush which so far I haven't found a Loricariiadae or Pleco fry that does not thrive on these foods. Consider. I buy and use up 10 pounds of each type of sticks a year. That is in addition to about 70 pounds of frozen Blood worms, weekly live Black worm shipments and a couple 10.5 oz cans of Tetra Color Bits. I have a lot of catfish and large wild Angels and Discus. The two stick foods are much easier to feed in precise amounts and do not foul the water unless there is a case of gross over feeding. One cannot control an egg based pastes dried on rocks once it loosens and enters the water. The egg will deteriorate water quality very easily.
My wild Angels and Discus also eat a lot of earth worm sticks.
That looks like a good sized Chaetostoma, Matt. A larger species than your C. milesi?
As it goes I was wandering around my land today and I remembered a pond that I had hidden away for just such an occasion full of rocks and bogwood all with loverly algae and obviously awfuchs all over them.
What about if I pile a load of that in in a couple of days?
Matt
One more bucket of water and the farce is complete.
Well yes!
Today I was sitting on the sofa watching the tank cos I was bored and a fully operational, fully formed zippy fish about 5mm long shot out of nowhere and started cleaning the glass!
I went and got the camera but as usual the batteries were dead (why are they always dead at times like this) so me and my youngest boy started raiding the remote controls to get 4 usable batteries together and by the time we did the little fella scootled off somewhere!
Batteries are on charge now and so I aint missing it next time.
I reckon there's a few of them in there.
Matt
One more bucket of water and the farce is complete.
I've also seen female L-387s sitting on eggs-all 3 adults can't be males unless there's something I don't know. Time will tell if they're fertile. Do you have them in a species tank? If so, the next time, you can just leave them to it. They'll figure things out. Just make sure there are plenty of hiding places, rocks, etc. Keep us posted.
oi!! he is eating them!!
