What is my catfisch? L ?

[claro]

Hi,
Anyone have any idea ?

Thank you

Milan

[Borbi]

Hi Milan,

the same already suggested at l-welse.com:

It´s Ancistrus dolichopterus.

Cheers, Sandor

[claro]

Thank you Sandor,

My friends cann not stil believe that. I would confirm it them also there. More other peoples ideas maybe help. They sell this catfisch as L 213.

Milan

[Jools]

More other peoples ideas maybe help.

Why? It's

Ancistrus dolichopterus

, maybe you should ask why they think it's L213.

Jools

[MatsP]

There is only one known Ancistrus that has more than 8 rays in the dorsal fin, Ancistrus dolichopterus, and this fish, to my count has 11 or 12.

No doubt, it is A. dolichopterus, or it's a completely unknown fish that hasn't been seen before. But the colour and pattern also matches the known fish!

--
Mats

[sunfish]

There is only one known Ancistrus that has more than 8 rays in the dorsal fin, Ancistrus dolichopterus, and this fish, to my count has 11 or 12.

I counted 9 soft rays. But still, it's L183.

[claro]

And two photos parents

[Haavard Stoere]

It could be A. dolichopterus (if one believes that this species has several l-numbers), but it is not L183.

I had a trio of these. They were very-very old, but still had the white rims on the dorsal and caudal fin. L 183 has also much smaller spots.

[Haavard Stoere]

Edit.... I am no longer that sure.

I was a bit quick on the keyboard. It seems to be an A. dolichopterus, but with larger spots and no white rims on the adult.

[MatsP]

Edit.... I am no longer that sure.

I was a bit quick on the keyboard. It seems to be an A. dolichopterus, but with larger spots and no white rims on the adult.

I'm pretty sure the Cat-eLog states that the white edge on the fins can disappear in adults - many other Ancistrus species do loose the white in edges of the fins.

--
Mats

[AleGer]

Maybe it could be hybrid of L183 and for example L181.

There are a lot of such black ancistrus with white spots that has more than 8 soft rays in a dorsal fin and with out white bands in Ukraine. So they aren't L183 and L181.
They are being bred for a long time. And as far as we manage to find out all of them could be hybrids.

[claro]

Hi Jools,

[/quote]

Why? It's Ancistrus dolichopterus, maybe you should ask why they think it's L213.

Because adult fisch look like as this catfisch: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=9913

Milan

[panaque]

Because adult fisch look like as this catfisch: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=9913

As was mentioned before, the number of soft rays in the dorsal are supposed to be diagnostic. You may also find this article informative: http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... cle_id=380.
Hope that helps.

[Borbi]

Hi,

Because adult fisch look like as this catfisch: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=9913

not really, if you compare the amount/distribution/appearance of the male´s antennae. Those of A. sp. "L 213" appear to be more like those of A. sp. "L 184", while those of the adults you posted more resemble the "normal" Ancistrus type antennae (as do those of A. dolichopterus).
Identification by antennae is of course only tentative, but usually, you can at least group the fish roughly.

Hope that helps,

Cheers, Sandor

[Haavard Stoere]

There is something strange with the adult fish. How can they be L183 without looking like L183? Most species are variable, but sometimes you just look at the fish and think its a different fish. If the origin and history of the parent fish are unknown I suspect the fish to be hybrids. The fact that the fish has 9 soft finrays can`t be 100% diagnostic if dealing with a hybrid.

[claro]

Thank you once again

Milan

[Haavard Stoere]

Compare the spots... The spots on an adult L183 are just like specs of dust. The white rims are almost redused to nothing, but it is still there.

[claro]

If the origin and history of the parent fish are unknown I suspect the fish to be hybrids.

Parent fish are imported in size XL by czech importer fy. Papik as L 213 , it is third generation, prime breeder Mr.Havel has also L 183 with border in adult, it isn´t hybrids.

[Cristoffer Forssander]

And two photos parents

It could be L107.

Both parents and fry is similar to my species!


Regards
Cristoffer

[claro]

It could be L107.

L107 haveńt any white edge on the fins in juvenility.

[husky_jim]

Compare the spots... The spots on an adult L183 are just like specs of dust. The white rims are almost redused to nothing, but it is still there.

I agree with Haavard.

My adult (wildcaught) L183 and my F1s and F2s have very fine spotting as pictured above and the white edge is "limited" but still there....

[Haavard Stoere]

It could be L107.

L107 haveńt any white edge on the fins in juvenility.

Agree!, also L107/184 cant be confused with other numbers because of the prolonged filaments on top and bottom of the caudal fins. This is visible in juveniles only a few weeks old. The fish pictured here are NOT L107/L184.

L213 looks to be the fish if L213 is capable of having 9 soft rays on the dorsal fin, and if the fry have white seams. Maybe the key of 7-8 or 8-10 is a bit wrong? Maybe the story of the origin of the parents is a bit wrong?

The two adults pictured don`t look like L183, and I can`t understand how they can be L183 when they are not even similar.

This is great fun

[Cristoffer Forssander]

I'm sure that it's NOT L213!

I haven't seen my L107 fry's untill they where 3 cm so I don't know about the white edge on the fins.

I don't think that Yong Teng Goh images is L213... I'm unsure absout most images there except http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... e_id=10332

Have a look at
http://www.mchportal.com/fishkeeping-ma ... -l213.html

Cristoffer

[claro]

[quote="Haavard Stoere"]

L213 looks to be the fish if L213 is capable of having 9 soft rays on the dorsal fin, and if the fry have white seams. Maybe the key of 7-8 or 8-10 is a bit wrong?

And the most similar fisch, which i saw - http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=9493 have 7 rays.

[claro]

I don't think that Yong Teng Goh images is L213... I'm unsure absout most images there except http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... us+sp(l213)&image_id=10332

I think that the best images L 213 is into magazines DATZ 8/1996 and i am sorry tu say - i never saw him.

[Karsten S.]

Hi,

I have some very similar specimen that have 8 soft rays in the dorsal fins.
My youngsters and adult fish look pretty much the same, unfortunately I don't know anything about the origin of my fish.

The offspring keeps the white seam until 8..14cm, but all of them lost them sooner or later.
Some of my youngsters were identified (with a slight uncertainty) by Ingo Seidel as L 183 = A. dolichopterus.

The spots on an adult L183 are just like specs of dust.

To my experience the size of the spots varies a lot on pictures depending if you use flash or not.
Sometimes you can hardly see any spots on my specimen, sometimes you can clearly see many very small spots.
On pictures taken with flash the spots are always visable and seem to be much larger than they actually are.

I still think that you have L 183.

Cheers,

[claro]

continue

[MatsP]

It's a beautiful fish, but it's not L183 in my opinion. Spots are too large (and too few).

That doesn't in itself make it a hybrid. It would be good to understand where it came from (country, river).

--
Mats