Sorubim Lima

[MatsP]

Whilst your tank size is large enough for decent size fish, I would say that a 2-3ft fish will be a bit cramped, even in your relatively large tank.

That's just my opinion, of course [but you did ask!].

--
Mats

[Bas Pels]

An arowana will get close to a meter, say 3 feet, so I think Matts is rather optimistic suggesting 2-3 feet

Asian Arowanas might get only 2 feet, but these are much more agressive than the americans are. A friend of mine once tried an Asian arowana of 1 foot with very tough central American cichlids - Parachromis, Amphilophus species, that kind of species.

It got all the cichlids sheltered within 24 hrs.

So Asian Arowana are not suit4eble for any combination, and the americans? I would say in a 4*2 meter footprint tank, with a large area above the water.

No less, and therefore I think arowanas are even less suitable for a tank than redtail catfish (which only require water, after all)

[Void]

Thank you two for your opinions, but at the moment you're both vastly outnumbered. It's two against an Aro, and seven for an Aro, including a statement from one of those that if I added a Silver Aro it would be better off than 99% of those in the aquarium trade.

Oh well. I'll play it by ear. There are still two more forums I want to get an opinion from, anyways, so who knows, the numbers could soar drastically in the other direction.

Again, thanks for the opinions. You're right, MatsP, I did ask. =P

[MatsP]

Thank you two for your opinions, but at the moment you're both vastly outnumbered. It's two against an Aro, and seven for an Aro, including a statement from one of those that if I added a Silver Aro it would be better off than 99% of those in the aquarium trade.

So if you have a 200 x 200 ft garden, you'd think that's better place to keep a tiger than in a zoo that has a 50 x 100 ft enclosure - but it's not a GOOD place to keep one... Ideal space for a tiger is perhaps 1000 x 1000 ft [realistically enclosing it - in nature they will have a territory that is a couple of miles across - but that's a bit unrealistic if it's being kept as a pet/zoo exhibit]. I don't think "it's better in my tank than in any of the shops" is a good argument for buying a fish that will, in our opinion, outgrow the tank it's intended for.

One problem with asking several forums is that you get several different opinions, and the people one one forum may not understand the arguments put forward in another.

This is clearly not a case of "right vs. wrong", but if I understand it right, Arowana's do like quite a bit of space - and EVEN if they "only" grow to 2ft, they wouldn't be in a big enough tank in your 500g - a two foot fish needs a tank that is at least 8ft x 4ft base area. And if they get to 3ft, you need another 4ft on the long side and 2ft on the shorter side. Admittedly, arowana's don't need much depth - they rarely stray from the surface.

And bear in mind that they can jump quite high!

--
Mats

[Void]

I understand where you're coming from, I truly do, but just going to one forum would be equally foolish, as I could only be getting one side of the perspective (which in fact, I have here. And there. I understand that it's two completely different ideas.)

I'm going to four forums, though. Two of which I know for sure have members with experience dealing with Arowanas. If three forums go for one opinion, and only one thinks something completely opposite it is in my best interest to follow the three, not the one, is it not? And of course, obviously, no matter the outcome on the forums, I will use my brains to decide what's best.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I would like to point out that if someone here had helped me fill the numbers of species I had already planned I wouldn't have gone to MFK at all looking for help and suggestions in the first place, at which point the Aro would never have come up at all.

Apologies if any offence was taken, but I do understand where you two are coming from.

[sidguppy]

Thank you two for your opinions, but at the moment you're both vastly outnumbered. It's two against an Aro, and seven for an Aro, including a statement from one of those that if I added a Silver Aro it would be better off than 99% of those in the aquarium trade.

Oh well. I'll play it by ear. There are still two more forums I want to get an opinion from, anyways, so who knows, the numbers could soar drastically in the other direction.

I'm not about to mince words; this is a genuine case of not wanting to listen what you SHOULD listen to (wich is some real good advice from some very experienced fishkeepers) but only wanting to listen to what you want to hear. as in: you want people simply agreeing to what you already plan to do

short said: you're going to do someting pretty fish unfriendy, but you don't give a damn; cause the last thing on your mind is the well being of your fish!
and to hell with the consequences.


if I had for one milli-second the suspicion you are "that sort of person" I'd saved myself a l of time (I type with 1 finger) and all that well intended advice; but alas...
more pearls for the swine I guess.


it is stuff like this that gives us serious fisahkeepers a bad name.

you are bad for the hobby. period.

your final comment to both Bas and Mats:

Apologies if any offence was taken, but I do understand where you two are coming from.

shows what kind of person we're dealing with here.

judging people by their origins, what do we call that:
discrimination and extreme prejudice.

and what do we call people who behave like that, hmm?

I'll give you a hint and spare Jools some cleaning up and avoid spelling it out, but musical genius Frank Zappa made a few songs about your type of person, and if you think I don't beat around the bush, well; I haven't got anything on FZ

[Void]

Sid, I'm not trying to start an argument (although that has happened already) but the below is a few questions and statements for you regarding your rude and degrading comments.

1) Where did I state plainly that I was absolutely going to go against MatsP and Bas and just throw the Aro in "to hell with the consequences." Where did I say it was anymore than a suggestion from MFK and that they thought it would be fine?

2) How do you know I am against the well-being of my fish? How many of my tanks have you actually heard about? I'm not a newbie throwing bettas in cups, and goldfish in bowls. I have a decent amount of experience, and the healthy fish to prove it. This tank does not exist yet. The stocking list is not yet set in stone. The day I come back and say "I am putting three aros, twelve sorubims, and a Tursiops truncatus in my 500" is the day you may make any mention of me disregarding the well-being of my fish without backlash. All throughout the planning of this tank I have been going to multiple sources, so that in the end I could make the most educated decision on my own, without only one source's opinion. I'm not doing this because I want an Aro and am looking for people to back my preferences up. In fact, I'm really not fond of them. If you had noticed I asked about keeping a Giant Gourami in the tank, that was denied, and we moved on once I decided the opinion was a good and healthy-for-the-fish one to follow.. Can we not do the same here?

3) I did appreciate all of your advice before the last post, and took it to heart when making decisions. I enjoyed the fact that in the beginning you seemed very willing to offer help to a new person on the PlanetCatfish forum.

4) And finally you claim I am descriminating. Which is entirely false. "I understand where you two are coming from" means that I understood their opinions, and am going to be taking them into consideration when making final decisions. Imagine that; a newbie to a forum is actually a learned personage and not just someone who says everything point-blank.

[MatsP]

Sid can be a bit more than blunt - that, I have to say, has something to do with where he comes from (as in where he lives). That said, he does care for his animals, to the extreme. It's just that different cultures have a different way of expressing "don't do that". Where in England you'd say "I don't think that's a good idea", someone in the Netherlands will be more direct and say "Don't do that". Different cultures, different ideas.

I don't think anyone said that you were a novice fishkeeper.

So what size does the MFK forum members say that a silver arowana grows to? I must confess I have not kept this type of fish myself (I don't have a tank large enough to even begin considering it, as my largest tank is about 20% of the water volume of your planned one, although it's fairly large still, it's nowhere near big enough for this purpose). This site says they can grow to 4ft in nature. In my opinion, you should count on the fish growing to the same size in captivity [at least] as it does in nature. A four foot fish is MUCH too cramped in a 8ft long tank, especially if the tank is less than 4ft across as well - and don't tell me "the fish bends" - of course it does, like your legs bend, but it doesn't mean you want to sleep in a bed that is two feet shorter than yourself - and a fish should have more than enough space to stretch out in both directions.

Also, the Arowana requires open space in the tank, you need places for a Sorubim lima to hide along the edges, so you have now used up some of the space for the Arowana, and you need an even bigger tank.

If you, in the future, decide to build a decent size indoor pond [or mega-aquarium], feel free to consider other large fishes.

I'm very much of the opinion that fish should be kept in oversize tanks, not cramped conditions.

--
Mats

[wrasse]

Its easy, isn't it, to misunderstand where someone is coming from?! And in plain english that means - what they are trying to say, or put across, or ask.
For example, I said that Geophagus Brasiliensis is a bruiser (which it is). But I did not say all geophagus are bruisers. Far from it.
All the guy is asking for is thoughts on what goes well with sorubim lima. And our Canadian friend is doing very well being diplomatic - well done mate. I would be less so...

[Void]

MatsP: I was using the example of "newbies to the hobby" because it was the easiest bad reference I could recall at the moment. I'm aware that no one called me a newbie.

Yet regardless of where Sid is from, I see no reason at all for them to have stated "you are bad for the hobby. period." Especially when they don't know about my current tanks, and without confirmation that I even truly wanted an Aro in there, etc, etc, see my previous post, etc. The descrimination claim could have easily been a misunderstanding. That statement claiming I am bad for the hobby and all counterparts of it is simply not forgivable, though. Think of how you would feel if a fellow aquarist had said that to you, instead of me, especially when you're just trying to go by what you have been taught in the past.

As for the other recommend tank sizes for a Silver Arowana from MFK, they said a width of 30". Which frankly, I DID find ridiculous.

And to wrasse: Thank you.

[Shane]

4) And finally you claim I am descriminating. Which is entirely false. "I understand where you two are coming from" means that I understood their opinions, and am going to be taking them into consideration when making final decisions. Imagine that; a newbie to a forum is actually a learned personage and not just someone who says everything point-blank.

I think Sid's response to this was a simple misunderstanding of an English phrase. I can easily see how he translated it literally instead of figuratively as it was meant. I also believe that his interpretation colored his entire response. Anyway, thank you both for giving me a great example of how easily a common phrase in English can be misinterpreted.

The advice given to you at MFK is no surprise. Ask a bunch of people that keep "monster" fishes what you should get and their response will be a "monster" fish.

-Shane

[sidguppy]

what irks me the most is that the OP finds my reply to his insane plan rude, but he doesn't think his actions are rude

I'm an old fashioned geezer. a product of the 20th century.

so i don't hold truck with the latest set of unwritten rules; that you can get away with all kinds of nefarious deeds as long as you keep a civil tongue and talk smoothly

for me actions speak much, much louder than words and man should be judged by his deeds not his voice

so for me a bunch of bad mouthed lines by a misanthrope like myself can be rude or wrong; but it's not even close to the wrongness caused by putting a fish in a tank so small that it literally has to fold itself to turn around

that IS cruelty to animals, nd not just in my book

anyone who should keep a German Shepherd Dog in a coffin can safely assume that if he ever puts that stunt on a dog keepers forum; he's most likely going to get flamed in the worst way

so what I flat-out refuse to understand nor accept is that if someone does that to a fish on a fishkeepers forum wich is supposed to be one of the more responsible fdorums around; he sort of gets a free pass because he's victimised by my words

it's revolting, it's insulting and I stand by my line that persons like this ARE bad for the hobby.

if it was a human I guess it could be compared top one of those poor bastards in Gitmo.
but since it's a fish, it's OK?

not in my book it's not.

[wrasse]

Void was playing 'devil's advocate'. If I do this this and this and put it in an 8' tank, will it work? opinions please.
He hasn't even bought the tank yet. At this stage he's playing at putting fish lists together - don't we all?
Meanwhile, Sid has put an african clarias into what was supposedly a peaceful tank and it proceeds to grow at an alarming rate aided by a diet of tankmates! Nice!
Who is 'BAD' for the hobby now??? Why not ask your njassae?