What kind of Hypancistrus? L173 fry update

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 03 Dec 2009, 16:37

Please Id..

I really don't know....

HenkeP · Post by **HenkeP** » 03 Dec 2009, 17:15

I´d say L98... But I´m no expert.. You should wait for some more answers.

EDIT: Changed my mind.. Maybe it´s a L173?

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 03 Dec 2009, 17:55

Thank you..

A very nice pleco in Deed.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 03 Dec 2009, 21:04

forget numbers; it's not a Plecostomus, but a Hypancistrus.

the species that's another story.

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 03 Dec 2009, 22:01

Thank you for the correction... I have changed it already.

Post by **Janne** » 03 Dec 2009, 23:53

Janne

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 03 Dec 2009, 23:55

They look a lot like to me.
The L98 appears to be a synonym for L46 .
If I am correct, these are very rare in Stateside collections and I don't know of anyone who is breeding L173 in the States.
I'll take a couple dozen since they are small.

Fantasticfins · Post by **Fantasticfins** » 04 Dec 2009, 04:08

The last fish is Hypancistrus sp. "Lower Rio Xingu"

The other fish are L-400 which fool people to be L-173

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 04 Dec 2009, 05:38

Thank you.. for sharing some pictures with us it is much appreciated but I totally disagree with the ID of bottom fish, I know how hard it is to tell from one to another but I will let people be the judge of it according to the pictures.

The two pictures on the top are in deed L400 adults.... that will be for sale soon but the bottom one it is an adult L173 I was only able to find a few after months of search.
Most of the time when fish like this arrive in the country people always come to the same conclusion...lets wait for a few months until it is mature so will see the body shape, patterns, color, size etc well! this fish is an adult that is here for us to learn more about. We don't have to wait till he grows.. as he is in his full length already.

There is no much information on this fish and I strongly believe one of the main caracteristics of it is the thicker while patters on his body. It is very clear that in the picture of your fish the black is more predominat then the while along his entile body I have included some main differences that I found.

My findings.

1. Thicker white colors
2. Top fin is pointing
3. Tail has prolongations and also the while pattern goes through out the whole fish's body.
4. The stomach is also white and goes alone to the side of the fish as marked on the picture.

Please share some more opinions. If I COULD only make my pictures bigger for bettern appreciation of my pictures

Thank you all

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 04 Dec 2009, 06:18

I agree that the fish you appear to be holding is 173, but the others don't look much like it to me.

Fantasticfins · Post by **Fantasticfins** » 04 Dec 2009, 16:46

Shape of caudal fin is consistent with Hypancistrus sp. "Lower Rio Xingu" as is yellow tint to pectoral fin tips. Size of first ray on pectoral fins is also much larger on H. sp. "Lower Rio Xingu".

What do you think of this fish? Do you think it's the same as yours? Hard to see caudal fin clearly, but you can see the thicker white colors, the dorsal fin is much higher (the pointing on your fish's dorsal fin is from injury), white goes through the whole fish's body, and it has a white stomach.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 04 Dec 2009, 17:03

Fishes from garupa and porto de moz are so variable it's difficult to classify them so definitively.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 04 Dec 2009, 17:20

This is an endless game of pinning the number on the Hypancistrus but just comparing the 1st two photos in the initial post to the photos in the Cat=elog entries, they look much more like L173 than Hypancistrus sp Lower Xingu to me.
The 3rd photo is a much more mature fish, maybe it is and maybe it isn't L173 but it seems to look like the entries for L173, too.

Much seems to me to depend on whether one is a knowledgeable buyer or seller and someone is trying to game the other for an advantage. What about the German guy on aquabid who has essentially identical fish at zebra prices? Think he has L173 or something else?
I don't have any of these nor can afford to buy any if they were for sale so I'm just sayin', there are some reliable sources who think they are L173 and reliable sources who don't.

Fantasticfins · Post by **Fantasticfins** » 05 Dec 2009, 13:21

apistomaster wrote:This is an endless game of pinning the number on the Hypancistrus but just comparing the 1st two photos in the initial post to the photos in the Cat=elog entries, they look much more like L173 than Hypancistrus sp Lower Xingu to me.
The 3rd photo is a much more mature fish, maybe it is and maybe it isn't L173 but it seems to look like the entries for L173, too.

Much seems to me to depend on whether one is a knowledgeable buyer or seller and someone is trying to game the other for an advantage. What about the German guy on aquabid who has essentially identical fish at zebra prices? Think he has L173 or something else?
I don't have any of these nor can afford to buy any if they were for sale so I'm just sayin', there are some reliable sources who think they are L173 and reliable sources who don't.

Everything said here, besides your whining and quest for drama, is intelligent conversation amongst people with experience with these fish. Please don't derail threads or interrupt such conversation. I have respect for Saul and have spoken to him in such a manner. I am not a fan of folks giving advice and or opinions on fish they have absolutely no experience with, nor do I appreciate being accused of "gaming the other for an advantage". People like you (inexperienced mega-posters who give advice on fish they have not seen nor worked with) are the reason people like me (LFS owner who's handled 1000's of Hypancistrus and works with hundreds of them at home) would rather not give real advice based on experience.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 05 Dec 2009, 15:06

I don't recall accusing you of anything.
Sellers want to have rare fish worth much more than many buyers want to pay and would be buyers will attempt to cast doubts to use as leverage. This is only natural. I don't know anything about any interactions between you and Unungy that may have transpired. That is none of my business.
Many Hypancistrus are difficult to identify with 100% accuracy and lend themselves well to debates as to whether a given specimen is the expensive one or the cheaper one.
I do know a bit and I have plenty of experience, especially this year after the economic crash, with people making me ridiculously low offers for the fish I sell and those who who are realistic. I set my prices and do not negotiate unless the number of fish involved in a transaction is large and for resale by others.

I am sure you have the experience you claim. I had the largest tropical fish shop in the state of Idaho by the time I was 17 years old in 1969 and it was open for 6 years. I began breeding wild Discus in that same year. I have sold a lot of fish in the decades since and bred more than a few. No one has any monopoly on experience in the fish business. I can't help it that I began very early and have remained involved in the hobby since as hobbyists, retailer and wholesaler.
I have the time and interest to participate on these different discussions that some do not because I don't have to go to work.
Too bad if my free time activities annoys you.

Fantasticfins · Post by **Fantasticfins** » 05 Dec 2009, 15:29

More whining and further derailing of this thread. This thread is about the identity of a fish. Not what you care to whine about. I'm sure you'll further whine after you read this and completely destroy a thread of intelligent information sharing. Which will prove you are truly a moron.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 05 Dec 2009, 18:33

Fantasticfins wrote:More whining and further derailing of this thread. This thread is about the identity of a fish. Not what you care to whine about. I'm sure you'll further whine after you read this and completely destroy a thread of intelligent information sharing. Which will prove you are truly a moron.

One should express their personal problems with an individual by way of using the PM system.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 05 Dec 2009, 19:04

Whilst I think you both have contributed to "derail" the discussion with the last few posts, I think the real judge of any derailing etc, would be the original poster.

Maybe you both should either use the PM function, or start another thread.

--
Mats

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 05 Dec 2009, 23:23

"The two pictures on the top are in deed L400 adults.... that will be for sale soon but the bottom one it is an adult L173 I was only able to find a few after months of search."

I see you already addressed my concerns. Should've read more carefully--sorry.

Anyways, yes, 173 it is, then.

Post by **Janne** » 06 Dec 2009, 00:07

Some details that not many people know is: Hypancistrus sp "lower xingu" i not one species, from these all collected at the same localities is L173, L399-L400, H. sp "lower xingu" (the rest that not looks like the other) is sorted and shipped as separate L-number, not today but before when it was still illegal but no control. All of them from Belo Monte, from Porto de Moz where some of the L333 is collected are no other Hypancistrus species collected even if it's not impossible to find other species but only L333 was collected near Porto de Moz.
And I will not even mention how many thousands I have seen ;)

Janne

Fantasticfins · Post by **Fantasticfins** » 06 Dec 2009, 04:38

As this fish is freshly caught from the wild, it's still bright white and dark black. Time will tell what it is. If it's what I believe it to be, it will fade to dark grey over light grey/almost white. It will keep a white belly, but the tail shape (when it heals) will be different from L-173. Sharing of pics of these fish in 6 months will be helpful, especially after the fins heal.

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 09 Dec 2011, 07:47

This colony went to a good breeder in the USA in Dec 2009. He has been able to breed them successfully.
The father never lost his radiant coloration but remain black and white as the original picture.

The offspring remain with the same amazing pattern.
I have attached some pictures of these beautiful L173 fry.

Please feel free to comment....they are still growing.

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 09 Dec 2011, 07:52

More pictures

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 09 Dec 2011, 07:54

More pictures

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 09 Dec 2011, 07:58

More pictures

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 09 Dec 2011, 08:01

More pictures
I was able to attached different size pictures of their fry ranging from 1.5 - 2.5 inches to see how they continue to change as they grow older.

Enjoy them.

johannes · Post by **johannes** » 12 Dec 2011, 02:02

Looks like a clear cut L400 to me...
unless they were a product of hybridization..

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 12 Dec 2011, 02:17

Parents were ID as L173, did you care to read about their parents on the front page?
did you see their picture?

Very knowledgeable people have agreed on their parents on 2009.
Lets don't forget that they are only 1.5 - 2.5 inches. I will post pictures of them as they grow older.

At least you didn't say that they look like L66 fry lol lol lol

jac · Post by **jac** » 12 Dec 2011, 15:36

I agree. To me they look like beautiful L400.

I have the real L173 here and they absolutely don't look anything like yours I'm afraid.
Here's a video of my L173 youngsters:

Unungy · Post by **Unungy** » 12 Dec 2011, 15:48

Great Video but I see L46 wavy youngsters, L173 is not an L46 nor does look like one.

Would you post pictures of their parents? are they L46 wavy?

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